Restore Old Bell Leather Saddle

[rjtedge]

Hi,

I recently bought an old Hallmark bicycle with its original Bell leather saddle (these were made in Sydney i think?). I would love to restore it and keep it with the bicycle as it is really quite nice, but it has sagged quite a lot and is uncomfortable to say the least seat post in their back is not nice).

I want to treat the leather to give it back some moisture as it is really dry, and then use the tensioning bolt to stretch the leather a little to bring it back up, however one of the front rivets is missing that connects to the tensioning mechanism, it there a way to re-rivet it?

[hartleymartin]

Yes, it can be re-revitted. However, it will depend on the condition of the leather. If the leather is really dry, a quick dunk in neatsfoot oil might do the trick. Only for about 5 or 10 minutes though, as new leather gets about a 30-minute to 1-hour dunk.

[rjtedge]

Any idea how to re-rivet it? There is no real room to hit the back with a hammer and tool as the rivet goes into the tensioning mechanism? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Clydesdale Scot]

As a first step I would be suggesting blocking the saddle.
The famous Skully provides the following guide from his excellent forum article about chopping Brooks saddles
My edits are in itallicised and in brackets

Blocking out:
If the nut has been turned at all it might be a good idea to undo it by a turn or so. Normally these should only be used as a last resort, best left alone.

Soak the saddle in lukewarm water [lukewarm, over 70 C will cook the leather]. This seems like a drastic thing, but hey if your saddle's a bit screwed, you have nothing much to lose. It's only a saddle! Leave it for a good ten minutes [better for 30-40 minutes until there are no tiny bubbles of air visible], bubbles will emanate for while.

Then remove and stuff it with scraps of newspaper. Its a good idea to start with really small pieces under the curve of the cantle plate (the horseshoe shaped thing) where the hide can often be quite indented, to make sure the new shape you're giving it is continuous right down to the rivets. Its hard to get more paper in that bit later on, so that's why you do it first. Then fill out the whole hide with lots more newspaper. Stuff it in so it bulges the leather outwards away from the rails, flattening it out back to its original shape. Don't go mad though, as the leather might tear when drying if it's overstuffed. If there's any lopsidedness try to work more paper into one side to correct that.

Then use a leather toestrap or two, or a leather belt, to tie the middle-to-nose section around, to keep its rounded shape. [use a wide 'belt' as if it is too narrow it can leave an imprint when dried]

Dry it somewhere warm-ish like near your boiler - not on a radiator, too warm there. Just a gentle drying out, you need to leave it for as long as you can bear... a few days seems to be fine. Check it early on though, to be sure there's no tearing near the nose rivets as it starts to dry out (and shrink), if there looks like there might be a lot of shrinkage there, maybe remove some paper around that area or undo the nut (if its been tightened previously).

Don't apply any proofide til its really dry.

Once it's done, you'll find that the soaking has made the hide less glossy. It seems quite normal for them to get like this with age anyway, but if you want it shinier your local shoemender will be able to buff it with beeswax on one of their machines (they should use the cloth polisher) for the price of a pint.

Beware that old saddles can tear if you go mad with oil/neatsfoot/leather cream. Just a little bit is fine, not often. Watch out for the inner layer (a kind of white-ish stuff that I think isn't actually leather) that a lot of older saddles have underneath the hide. These can tear near the nose in my experience. Once gone, the hide could rip there too.

Or just make a new leather cover for it, my instructions here

take the saddle to a (horse) saddle maker and get them to put a new rivet in, or if no saddle maker handy find a leather craft supplies and ask there, or failing that try a shoe repairer.
and please post your photos of your before and after.

Any suggestions/additions/corrections most welcome!

[rjtedge]

Thanks for the info all.
The saddle started like this

Not nice to sit on. It is getting treated as we speak and I am still searching for rivets to re-rivet the whole thing.

I also just acquired a 1976 Raleigh Sport with a Brooks B72, it is a goner as far as the leather goes, it is cracked and has a tear at the back left side rivet.




I think I might try to follow your instructions on making a new leather cover.
As for the vacume goes, could you potentailly use a vacume cleaner and a 'space bag thing like this...

Where did you end up getting the leather? I have had no luck what so ever, all places have said I must buy a whole hide?!?!

[hartleymartin]

Thanks for the info all.
The saddle started like this

Not nice to sit on. It is getting treated as we speak and I am still searching for rivets to re-rivet the whole thing.

I also just acquired a 1976 Raleigh Sport with a Brooks B72, it is a goner as far as the leather goes, it is cracked and has a tear at the back left side rivet.




I think I might try to follow your instructions on making a new leather cover.
As for the vacume goes, could you potentailly use a vacume cleaner and a 'space bag thing like this...

Where did you end up getting the leather? I have had no luck what so ever, all places have said I must buy a whole hide?!?!

Well, if you think that the B72 is a lost cause, send it to me, and I'll have a crack at it.

[Clydesdale Scot]

I think I might try to follow your instructions on making a new leather cover.
As for the vacume goes, could you potentailly use a vacume cleaner and a 'space bag thing
Where did you end up getting the leather? I have had no luck what so ever, all places have said I must buy a whole hide?!?!

As the vacuum needs to be running for about 30 minutes, it will probably burn out the vacuum cleaner motor. The vacuum cleaner suction is too strong.
The adaped fridge motor is more gentle and performs beautifully.

I got the leather from Leffler leather, I sent a pleading email and then sent a pattern of what I was after. Helen at Leffler was excellent to deal with.
However, have a look around for some custom shoe manufacturers in your city, and see if they have 5mm+ thick vegetable tanned butt leather they use for shoe soles. Last week I found a custom shoe maker in the next suburb and they had exactly what I need, and yesterday I bought another old saddle frame off ebay to do another saddle for a 1930s bike.

[rjtedge]

How much leather do you think I need, Leffler said they could give me a 400mm x 400mm piece of 5mm sole bend. Is this what I need?
How much would you think this would cost, as they said they cannot give a price until it is cut...
I am getting a little nervous now they are actually saying I could attempt this, I have no experience with leather working.
As I have no access to you vacuum machine, any other suggestions on how this step might be done?

[Clydesdale Scot]

rather than weigh the forum down with chit chat, communication is through PMs and emails.
I am encouraging the OP to have a go at recovering the saddle.