Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Duck! » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:04 pm

lock_ wrote:Few catalogue pictures of the 6870 Ultegra Di2 and the hydro disc brake rotor, pad and calliper.

Calliper gets the designation of BR-R785, according to my understanding this puts it at an Ultegra type level. This is fine by me, hate to think what price a DA Hydraulic Di2 groupset would go for. The hydraulic stuff doesn't seem branded to any spec level (eg; Ultegra or DA), guess they didn't want people to shy away from mix 'n matching.

Historically, the R700-series designation has been applied to "non groupset" Dura Ace level components (hinted at by until now Dura Ace having a 7000-series designation), R600 has been Ultegra equivalent (harking back to when that second tier group was called 600), etc.

However, in this case it would appear that the historical pattern is being passed over in favour of aligning the brakes with the XT mountain M785 & "trekking" (hybrid/touring-type setup) T785 series, which are basically the off-road equvalent of Ultegra anyway.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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by BNA » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:36 pm

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby cooperplace » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:36 pm

looks like the SRAM 22 hydraulic does what we want. By we I mean all sensible right-minded people, ie, those who agree with me.

It combines ergo shifters with a hydraulic brake lever!! Fantastic, so now campag and Shimano will have to follow.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:57 pm

cooperplace wrote:It combines ergo shifters with a hydraulic brake lever!! Fantastic, so now campag and Shimano will have to follow.

It'll be Shamino first, Campagnolo won't release until they've got it right and they've got no prior disc experience to draw on.
Wouldn't be surprised if they rope Brembo in for some R&D.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:02 pm

Campag is probably too much of a purist to help people put discs on a road bike. I could be wrong.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:17 pm

Nobody wrote:Campag is probably too much of a purist to help people put discs on a road bike. I could be wrong.

I do believe your last sentence to be 100% correct, is purity more important than market forces? Not if EPS has anything to do with it... :wink:
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby cooperplace » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:30 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
cooperplace wrote:It combines ergo shifters with a hydraulic brake lever!! Fantastic, so now campag and Shimano will have to follow.

It'll be Shamino first, Campagnolo won't release until they've got it right and they've got no prior disc experience to draw on.
Wouldn't be surprised if they rope Brembo in for some R&D.

Brembo? they made the discs on my ducati: what would they know about bicycles?
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:25 am

About as much as Campagnolo when they made cast magnesium wheels for Ducati in the 70's :)

I think they will actually go to Italian disc brake company Formula.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby cooperplace » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:36 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:About as much as Campagnolo when they made cast magnesium wheels for Ducati in the 70's :)

I think they will actually go to Italian disc brake company Formula.

tell me about it. A friend and I rode our dukes around tasmania in the late 70s. We were at the top of Mt Wellington when he noticed that his Darmah had a huge crack in the campag back wheel.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby cobba » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:38 pm

On the following link there's a photo of a Shimano 'Road Hydraulic Disc' equipped bike in Malaysia, you can only the levers though.
There's also a short crappy video where in the last few seconds you can see someone riding the 'Road Hydraulic Disc' bike.
http://www.khassbicycles.com/2013/06/shimano-new-product-presentation.html

A couple of photos the German Shimano distributor had on his website briefly.
https://www.paul-lange.de/tradepro/shop/artikel/gross/I-STR785L.jpg
https://www.paul-lange.de/tradepro/shop/artikel/gross/I-BRR785MPRF.jpg
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby lock_ » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:44 pm

Press embargo ends tomorrow, few premature articles popping up, but nothing with any real detail. Choice of 140 (std) or 160 rotors, and a 1.7kg road/cx wheel set for discs.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby barefoot » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:30 am

lock_ wrote:Press embargo ends tomorrow, few premature articles popping up, but nothing with any real detail. Choice of 140 (std) or 160 rotors, and a 1.7kg road/cx wheel set for discs.


Seriously?

Wow, they didn't try very hard there.

My disc road wheelset weighs in at 1.75kg. 32 spokes each wheel. Admittedly I scrimped and scrounged for bargain parts, but the wheelset came in at $200 plus some build time.

I would expect that the world's biggest bike parts manufacturer would put a bit more effort in to what is realistically the biggest step-change in road components in a decade.

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby lock_ » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:30 am

News of the 11-speed Ultegra Di2 and Hydraulic discs is pretty much everywhere now.
http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/06/30/shimano-unveils-hydraulic-road-discs-with-r785-di2-system-and-11-speed-ultegra-di2/

barefoot wrote:Seriously?

Wow, they didn't try very hard there.
...


Worse still, in my haste I simply truncated, wheelset actually weighs 1.795kg. But to be fair, their model designation WH-RX31 puts them at the same spec level as the existing RS30 wheelset weighing in at 1.952kg. :|

New Ultegra Di2 looks good, was always somewhat put off by the current models massive derailleurs. Lots of people hoping for a 11-speed firmware upgrade will no doubt be disappointed, but on the other hand those with existing 10-speed Di2 disc setups will be pretty happy that this disc system will be plug-and-play.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:16 am

lock_ wrote:New Ultegra Di2 looks good, was always somewhat put off by the current models massive derailleurs. Lots of people hoping for a 11-speed firmware upgrade will no doubt be disappointed, but on the other hand those with existing 10-speed Di2 disc setups will be pretty happy that this disc system will be plug-and-play.


the way I read it was you could use the existing brifters but would have to buy the new derailleurs (unsure if both are required)

am unsure how the existing 6770 brifters can work with hydro discs or am I missing something?
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby lock_ » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:23 am

^No that's pretty much it. 6770 shifters will do 11-speed, but you'll need new derailleurs (also unsure if you need the front too). Obviously need new shifters when going hydraulic, just saying these will work with 10 or 11 speed Di2.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:49 am

lock_ wrote:^No that's pretty much it. 6770 shifters will do 11-speed, but you'll need new derailleurs (also unsure if you need the front too). Obviously need new shifters when going hydraulic, just saying these will work with 10 or 11 speed Di2.


FD should be fine.

Not available till November though :(

Can't afford the change to Di2 without the difference in cost of the new shifters. Oh well, will have to make do with my Frankenbrake system at the moment !!!


One interesting note is that the disc system increases the weight over the rim brakes by 340g only !
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:12 pm

MichaelB wrote:One interesting note is that the disc system increases the weight over the rim brakes by 340g only !


which could easily be normalised with some brake-surface-less rims
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:18 pm

so if you wanted to be a tight-wad. could you buy 6770 shifters and front derailleur and 6870 rear deraillleur? that would of course limit you to mech brakes.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Duck! » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:06 pm

If current Ultegra-Dura Ace Di2 compatibility is anything to go by to upgrade to 11-sp. then both derailleurs need to be changed. The reason being the shift intervals are hard-programmed into the derailleur (unlike a mechanical system where the indexing is controlled by the shifters). The front derailleur's auto-trimming function is dictated by the rear derailleur, and with 11-sp. having a wider cassette & correspondingly longer derailleur stroke, the auto trim is programmed accordingly.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Duck! » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:35 pm

jasonc wrote:so if you wanted to be a tight-wad. could you buy 6770 shifters and front derailleur and 6870 rear deraillleur? that would of course limit you to mech brakes.

On the other side, the R785 non-groupset hydro Di2 shifters are compatible with DA 9070, 6770 & 6870 Ultegra, so existing groups can be fitted with hydros without any other changes.*

*Assuming frame, fork & wheels are disc-compatible. :mrgreen:
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:58 am

Duck! wrote:
jasonc wrote:so if you wanted to be a tight-wad. could you buy 6770 shifters and front derailleur and 6870 rear deraillleur? that would of course limit you to mech brakes.

On the other side, the R785 non-groupset hydro Di2 shifters are compatible with DA 9070, 6770 & 6870 Ultegra, so existing groups can be fitted with hydros without any other changes.*

*Assuming frame, fork & wheels are disc-compatible. :mrgreen:


Someone like me :mrgreen:

Trouble is, the likely end cost to convert to Di2 at the same time will prevent me from doing so in the very near future, hence the Frakenbrake project. Also the fact that I'm getting a new car has really cramped the spending ....
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Hotdog » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:16 pm

Not exactly a road bike as such but I've done a conversion from lightweight single pivot road calliper brakes to a front hydraulic disc brake on my 700C wheeled recumbent and posted some details in this thread over here. Included are photos of the Evolution A647, which as far as I can tell is still the only disc compatible road bike length carbon fork available with a 1 1/8" straight steerer tube.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:30 am

I like your work !!!

Looks schmick :D
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:07 pm

6.8 kg!

Discs and thru axles are not going to weigh down your bike.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:14 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:6.8 kg!

Discs and thru axles are not going to weigh down your bike.
I suppose I should put the link back up then. :oops:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/07/14/pri ... road-bike/
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