Nobody wrote:I know I'm called "Nobody", but I didn't think I was that invisible.MichaelB wrote:REALLY interesting article about disc brake fluid, with input from the big players
http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/11/tec ... c-updated/
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=31034&start=1250#p954274" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14867
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby MichaelB » Mon May 06, 2013 12:49 pm
-
- Posts: 10332
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14867
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby MichaelB » Thu May 09, 2013 9:38 am
They also do a 4 piston version with the M4 calipers
Hope V-Twin with M4 calipers
Hmmmmmm, yummy
BTW, tried to get some more info from my Tektro/TRP contact re the Hywire release, but he was tight lipped,
and I can say that the Hywire is still quite far from any type of release.
Oh well, standby to standby.
Either way, if I want to upgrade to either SRAM or Shiamno's system (and Di2 as well), then it will be similar cost - $1,200 for SRAM, and $850 + levers for the Shimano system.
Saving my pennies as I type
-
- Posts: 10332
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby Nobody » Sat May 11, 2013 11:15 am
http://road.cc/content/feature/83327-di ... -more-aero" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Mulger bill
- Super Mod
- Posts: 29060
- Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
- Location: Sunbury Vic
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby Mulger bill » Sat May 11, 2013 11:39 am
Forget the aero, I'm wondering what happens to the rear tyre when this hits a big bump...Nobody wrote:Aero losses for current disc brakes.
http://road.cc/content/feature/83327-di ... -more-aero" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
London Boy 29/12/2011
-
- Posts: 10332
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby Nobody » Sat May 11, 2013 12:52 pm
I can't see that bike on their web site and the "Product warranty" is unlinked. Probably not a first owner's problem.Mulger bill wrote:Forget the aero, I'm wondering what happens to the rear tyre when this hits a big bump...
http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/03/20/fir ... -unveiled/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Posts: 14413
- Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
- Location: Bendigo
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby warthog1 » Sat May 11, 2013 1:06 pm
I'm glad to see that confirmed. I can't see braking confidence affecting stage times much on a road stage race. The ability to set the correct speed for the corner isn't affected by braking power in the dry IME.Nobody wrote:Aero losses for current disc brakes.
http://road.cc/content/feature/83327-di ... -more-aero" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not looking forward to the inevitable introduction of disc brakes into UCI sanctioned races tbh.
New wheels frame and brakes etc = big dollars
Hopefully rim brakes retain their aero advantage for some time yet :I
-
- Posts: 10332
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby Nobody » Sat May 11, 2013 1:58 pm
Agree. IMO they are just talking it up in light of the negative results. I got about a 10% increase in drag from those results. For the average rider in an average road position, the bike is about a quarter of the aero drag and about a third in a TT position. Assuming a third and 83% (probably even more on a TT bike) of all drag is aero on the flat makes about 2.7% or more total increased drag for a TT. So it will never fly as a racing technology for ITT IMO.warthog1 wrote:I can't see braking confidence affecting stage times much on a road stage race. The ability to set the correct speed for the corner isn't affected by braking power in the dry IME.
I doubt you'll ever see them in UCI racing. It's not just the extra drag and weight, it's the risk of rotor burns and finger amputations in bunch crashes. Even if the UCI somehow make it legal, I think the racers would only find them an advantage in really wet conditions. Disc brakes are a real world solution for real world problems, but not an overall advantage in road racing conditions IMO.warthog1 wrote:Not looking forward to the inevitable introduction of disc brakes into UCI sanctioned races tbh.
-
- Posts: 14413
- Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
- Location: Bendigo
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby warthog1 » Sat May 11, 2013 2:08 pm
I hope you're right for the $$ aspect, but if Shimano pump out a groupset and exert pressure on the uci who knows?Nobody wrote:I doubt you'll ever see them in UCI racing. It's not just the extra drag and weight, it's the risk of rotor burns and finger amputations in bunch crashes. Even if the UCI somehow make it legal, I think the racers would only find them an advantage in really wet conditions. Disc brakes are a real world solution to real world problems, but not an overall road racing advantage IMO.warthog1 wrote:Not looking forward to the inevitable introduction of disc brakes into UCI sanctioned races tbh.
- singlespeedscott
- Posts: 5510
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:35 pm
- Location: Elimbah, Queensland
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby singlespeedscott » Sat May 11, 2013 2:10 pm
I'll hold you to that in three years time.Nobody wrote:Agree. IMO they are just talking it up in light of the negative results. I got about a 10% increase in drag from those results. For the average rider in an average road position, the bike is about a quarter of the aero drag and about a third in a TT position. Assuming a third and 83% (probably even more on a TT bike) of all drag is aero on the flat makes about 2.7% or more total increased drag for a TT. So it will never fly as a racing technology for ITT IMO.warthog1 wrote:I can't see braking confidence affecting stage times much on a road stage race. The ability to set the correct speed for the corner isn't affected by braking power in the dry IME.
I doubt you'll ever see them in UCI racing. It's not just the extra drag and weight, it's the risk of rotor burns and finger amputations in bunch crashes. Even if the UCI somehow make it legal, I think the racers would only find them an advantage in really wet conditions. Disc brakes are a real world solution for real world problems, but not an overall advantage in road racing conditions IMO.warthog1 wrote:Not looking forward to the inevitable introduction of disc brakes into UCI sanctioned races tbh.
Disc brakes will be there because it will be driven by bicycle manufacturers. the manufacturers will lean on the UCI because consumers will want or will be told that they need disc brakes.
It will happen, regardless of whether they are warranted or not.
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14867
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby MichaelB » Sat May 11, 2013 2:11 pm
I think that the above is a pretty accurate summary of where the racing future lies for discs.Nobody wrote: ..... Even if the UCI somehow make it legal, I think the racers would only find them an advantage in really wet conditions. Disc brakes are a real world solution for real world problems, but not an overall advantage in road racing conditions IMO.
- Mulger bill
- Super Mod
- Posts: 29060
- Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
- Location: Sunbury Vic
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby Mulger bill » Sat May 11, 2013 4:39 pm
I doubt they'll ever be mandated tho' so teams will have a choice.
The only reason that Joe Pedaller will need to get them once the UCI relents is peer pressure.
London Boy 29/12/2011
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby toolonglegs » Sat May 11, 2013 5:01 pm
In road racing they are probably dangerous ... Not because of rotor burns etc... But because it is better to have everyone on the same brakes roughly ( even if they dont stop you that well in some conditions ) than having a few riders in a bunch of 200 with vastly superior braking having everyone else run up their butt
-
- Posts: 996
- Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:36 pm
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby AndrewBurns » Sat May 11, 2013 5:04 pm
Legit tactic to brake check everyone behind you and force them to spear off the side of the road?toolonglegs wrote:That was until Pat got on someone's bike at a world cup and promptly fell off because the brakes didn't stop his lard arse ...and yet last season it was only really cannondale who ran them the whole season ( they only have disc only frames ) ... Might change a bit this year but not much.
In road racing they are probably dangerous ... Not because of rotor burns etc... But because it is better to have everyone on the same brakes roughly ( even if they dont stop you that well in some conditions ) than having a few riders in a bunch of 200 with vastly superior braking having everyone else run up their butt
- singlespeedscott
- Posts: 5510
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:35 pm
- Location: Elimbah, Queensland
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby singlespeedscott » Sat May 11, 2013 5:15 pm
-
- Posts: 14413
- Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
- Location: Bendigo
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby warthog1 » Sat May 11, 2013 10:16 pm
-
- Posts: 996
- Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:36 pm
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby AndrewBurns » Sun May 12, 2013 7:23 am
Yeah this is primarily my like for discs. I have a disc brake commuter bike with carbon clincher rims. Normally you'd be mad to run carbon clinchers on a commuter bike, inferior braking in the dry, abysmal braking in the wet, concerns about heat (especially on a bike with loaded panniers), brake pads wearing down your expensive rims (double time in the wet and mud). With disc brakes however the rims are just there to hold the tyres and so they'll last forever, and generally carbon is a very good material for rims it's light, strong and stiff. The end result is a sturdy all weather commuter bike that also doesn't weigh much more than the average road bike meaning I'm more likely to want to ride it to work and I get there faster.warthog1 wrote:Carbon clinchers are another reason they are bound to come in. Carbon doesn't like heat therefore the rims have to be built heavier to be strong enough. Discs resolve the heat problem and with lighter, easier to spin up rims.
- MichaelB
- Posts: 14867
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby MichaelB » Sun May 12, 2013 8:40 am
Am I missing something or does that chart not really mean anything ? There are no units listed, so it shows a difference in %, but % of what.Nobody wrote:Aero losses for current disc brakes.
http://road.cc/content/feature/83327-di ... -more-aero" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's also for a single bike in undisrupted airflow, not a bike with a rider in a peleton.
I think its a bit of misguided fluff that doesn't really prove anything of consequence. The UCI will be the biggest determinant, it's as simple as that.
In the meantime, the user market (use real life people) will decide how well it's accepted into the market place and whether it remains a real niche product or ends up with a meaningful % of the overall sales.
- find_bruce
- Moderator
- Posts: 10615
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby find_bruce » Sun May 12, 2013 8:44 am
That's an interesting theory, except for the fact that race cars, including F1, use carbon fibre disc brakes at temps that vastly exceed anything that will be seen on a bicycle.warthog1 wrote:Carbon doesn't like heat therefore the rims have to be built heavier to be strong enough.
I don't pretend to have the knowledge as to why, but it may be they use different resins
-
- Posts: 10332
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby Nobody » Sun May 12, 2013 8:50 am
The units are grams of drag if I remember correctly.MichaelB wrote:Am I missing something or does that chart not really mean anything ? There are no units listed, so it shows a difference in %, but % of what.
That's why my estimates of difference and comments were for TT.MichaelB wrote:That's also for a single bike in undisrupted airflow, not a bike with a rider in a peleton.
It paints a relative picture of something that was already known, that there is about 10% extra bike drag with discs.MichaelB wrote:I think its a bit of misguided fluff that doesn't really prove anything of consequence. The UCI will be the biggest determinant, it's as simple as that.
- MattyK
- Posts: 3257
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:07 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby MattyK » Sun May 12, 2013 12:50 pm
-
- Posts: 14413
- Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm
- Location: Bendigo
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby warthog1 » Sun May 12, 2013 2:36 pm
- find_bruce
- Moderator
- Posts: 10615
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby find_bruce » Sun May 12, 2013 2:43 pm
You are a very knowledgeable bloke, but on this occasion you are mistaken:MattyK wrote:F1 brakes are carbon, not carbon fibre
(1) most allotropes of carbon are soft & structurally unsuited to the application - pencil anyone ? Sure diamond is the exception, but I think there would be a lot of comments if the discs were diamond.
(2) http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/under ... /5284.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
All the cars on the grid now use carbon fibre composite brake discs which save weight and are able to operate at higher temperatures than steel discs.
-
- Posts: 10332
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby Nobody » Sun May 12, 2013 3:31 pm
There is a whole thread on this (below). Most of these high performance brakes have either a ceramic or silicon carbide braking surface with CF as the structure.find_bruce wrote:(2) http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/under ... /5284.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;All the cars on the grid now use carbon fibre composite brake discs which save weight and are able to operate at higher temperatures than steel discs.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=62276" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:36 am
Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!
Postby cobba » Sun May 12, 2013 5:03 pm
But will professional bike riders want them ?singlespeedscott wrote: Disc brakes will be there because it will be driven by bicycle manufacturers. the manufacturers will lean on the UCI because consumers will want or will be told that they need disc brakes.
In professional bike races after a wheel change you see the bike riders grabbing onto the team car to get their brakes adjusted by the mechanic.
Often this seems like a way to help the rider get back up to speed and catch up with the rest of the group.
If there isn't a problem with the disc brake caliper I doubt that a mechanic will pretend to fix it while the bike is moving.
If there actually was a problem with the disc brake caliper I doubt that a mechanic will try to fix it while the bike is moving.
Would you try to adjust a disc brake caliper while the bike was travelling at 60 kph ?
There's plenty of nasty photos around of severed fingers from disc brake rotors.
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: norts60
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.