Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !!

Postby MichaelB » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:52 pm

jacks1071 wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Hi jacks1071. Sounds good, but what is the axle crown length ?

I'd put my money up for one, so 39 to go ......


I'd have to measure it - with 700c wheels on my tandem and 28mm gator skins I still have sufficient clearance if that has any bearing on your question?


Sort of, yes. Pic's would be good too.

BTW, what does the N45 mean in you description of them ?
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by BNA » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:16 am

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1st Ride report - Yeehah !!!!

Postby MichaelB » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:16 am

OK, finally managed to get a ride in with the new setup (swapped out the stem, but forgot to adjust seat angle :roll: - will do before ride tonight ....)

Rather than head straight for the hills, decided to do my flat cct, and get the finer tuning done prior to belting down hills, so here are the notes and feedback from the 1st ride

In the shed, set up each pad so that it was one click backed off from touching - lever went quite some way to the bars, so was a bit perterbed, but set off nonetheless.

Braking : First corner - holy hell Batman :shock: , these had better improve. After a few more stops (gentleish) and some on the run pad adjustment, it was getting better (rotor is a G2 cleansweep). Did some harder stops, and then the dreaded HOWL came :shock: . Hmmm, not impressed with that, but it only occurred with the hard stops. Other more gentle stops coming to traffic lights were quiet, and getting more braking, but was still a fair bit of lever travel.

Just past the 1/2 way point in the ride (~ 31km), adjusted both pads as much as possible and backed them off (mainly the outboard one) so they weren't dragging. Much reduced lever travel and really good braking :D :D .

Got home, and the front is draging ever so slightly (only just noticeable when spinning the wheel in the air), so may back off the pads a touch prior to the ride and see how that goes.

Mt Lofty, here I come.

Handling : The biggest difference is how much more stable the bike is. Previously, couldn't ride the bike without hands (lack of skill as well :roll: ) as it was too twitchy, but now, it can be done, and pedal at the same time.
No obvious harhness through the fork of noodlyness due to longer axle-crown length.
Also, no obvious 'understeer' for the ride last night, but will see what happens coming down Mt Lofty tonight.

Weight : No direct measurements as the scales died, but the wheel would be pretty well similar, as the rim & spokes were lighter, but hub heavier (tyre is same), the fork was prob about 200g heavier (Argon fork is full carbon), and the net difference in the brakes is around 200 - 250g, so overall, less than 500g difference. Bugger all really.

Cost : Overall total = $373. Mosso Fork = $65, Cane Creek IS3 H/Set = $52, BB7 Road kit = $97, Magura Hub = $35, Velocity A23 Rim = $100, & DT Comp Butted spokes = A$24

Overall : Should have done it ages ago.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby cooperplace » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:38 pm

Hi Michael,

sounds great, I hope the Mt Lofty ride went well. My setup continues to perform well, with the howl on hard stops being the only issue,

Peter
Please be nice to me, I'm not very bright.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Anakist » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:52 pm

I just added a front disc to my MTB. It did squeal until I went on CQ. A 10% incline for 7km fixed that!

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2006 Avanti Escape with slicks and "Upgraditis"
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:27 pm

cooperplace wrote:Hi Michael,

sounds great, I hope the Mt Lofty ride went well. My setup continues to perform well, with the howl on hard stops being the only issue,

Peter


Mt Lofty is tonight (hopefully). Have to take some friends to the hairyport, so may not have enough time, but I'll give it a crack.

Maybe try a different rotor ?

Glad to hear that otherwise it's going well.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Crawf » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:29 pm

The braking will only get better over the next few weeks too.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !!

Postby scotto » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:44 pm

jacks1071 wrote:
dirty_harry wrote:the bike on co-motion is quite cool however im not to sure on the colour scheme, the bluey grey doesnt go with the brown. But why oh why did they have to stick an adult toy on the end of the nicely finished drop bar :twisted: :twisted: :lol:


Yeah I'm not sure about the brown bits...

My road tandem showed up today - very nice 700c carbon fork fitted with disc brake mount! Unfortunately the fork is a once-off at this point in time.

http://www.pro-lite.net/gallery/v/steve ... ewsIndex=1


whens thats tandem going to appear on your webite in the retail section ?!
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !!

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:58 pm

scotto wrote:
jacks1071 wrote:
dirty_harry wrote:the bike on co-motion is quite cool however im not to sure on the colour scheme, the bluey grey doesnt go with the brown. But why oh why did they have to stick an adult toy on the end of the nicely finished drop bar :twisted: :twisted: :lol:


Yeah I'm not sure about the brown bits...

My road tandem showed up today - very nice 700c carbon fork fitted with disc brake mount! Unfortunately the fork is a once-off at this point in time.

http://www.pro-lite.net/gallery/v/steve ... ewsIndex=1


whens thats tandem going to appear on your webite in the retail section ?!


When I'm confident enough to put my 54yo mother on a single bike I'll do you a deal on it :-)
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !!

Postby scotto » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:43 am

When I'm confident enough to put my 54yo mother on a single bike I'll do you a deal on it :-)

i'll hold you to that !! - ps - tell ya mum to hurry up !
what size riders does it suit BTW ?
( sorry for the thread hijack)
we need more pics of the finished product IMO
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:37 am

Well, another successful ride last night. Headed up to Mt Lofty, but only made it as far as the Bollards (late starting) before it was time to head back.

Handling was a bit of a surprise really. Was expecting some minor negative influences in the faster turns (a bit of understeer), but in reality, it was the other way :)

Directionally, it was very stable, turned in well, and is actually better suited to me, as at times, the turn-in was a bit 'quick' and nervous, whereas now it's really good. Much better suited to me. So much so, that I'm not in any hurry to change the fork.

Braking wise - it is getting better, and the modulation is fine, and the stopping power is GREAT !!!! Only really two hard brakes during the descent, and both were done pretty easily with only a little howl during one of them (transient).

There is still a minor amount of rubbing, and I think it's the inboard pad, but will have more of a play with it on the weekend.

As promised earlier, here are some progress pics. Obligatory shed door shot to come (once I clean the bike :roll: )

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !!

Postby jacks1071 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:22 am

scotto wrote:
When I'm confident enough to put my 54yo mother on a single bike I'll do you a deal on it :-)

i'll hold you to that !! - ps - tell ya mum to hurry up !
what size riders does it suit BTW ?
( sorry for the thread hijack)
we need more pics of the finished product IMO


I've got the autocad drawing of the frame here somewhere that I can send you.

Tandem sizing is always a little bit compromised unless you get a frame custom-build for both riders. The front is a large size, and the rear is a small size without going into measurements. I'm 5'11" and have pleanty of adjustment so someone within a few inches of my height would be OK. Mum is about 5'9" on the back and its a little small for her but she wants a very up-right position until her back strengthens up a bit so it suits us well as the shorter top-tube equals a more up-right position.

I did do a TT with my cousin's son on the back, he's my height but has longer legs and a shorter upper body - we averaged 51km/ph over a 16km circuit! It was crazy fast and heaps of fun.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby jacks1071 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:28 am

MichaelB wrote:Well, another successful ride last night. Headed up to Mt Lofty, but only made it as far as the Bollards (late starting) before it was time to head back.

There is still a minor amount of rubbing, and I think it's the inboard pad, but will have more of a play with it on the weekend.



The rubbing could be a bit of flex in the fork or hub - or both?

See if you can get some Swisstop pads for it - they are expensive but will transform the braking power.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:38 pm

jacks1071 wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Well, another successful ride last night. Headed up to Mt Lofty, but only made it as far as the Bollards (late starting) before it was time to head back.

There is still a minor amount of rubbing, and I think it's the inboard pad, but will have more of a play with it on the weekend.



The rubbing could be a bit of flex in the fork or hub - or both?

See if you can get some Swisstop pads for it - they are expensive but will transform the braking power.


No, just spinning the wheel whilst stationary. Barely slows the wheel, but you can just hear it if there is no background noise.

I'm more than happy with the braking power as it is, so more would be even better. I'll wear out these first.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby jules21 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:22 pm

nice work Michael - very impressed.

with the pad rubbing - if you can spin the wheel and it isn't appreciably retarded by the brakes, i wouldn't worry. very minor rubbing is of no consequence.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:53 pm

jules21 wrote: nice work Michael - very impressed.


Cheers, me too 8)

I'm actually surprised by the amount of braking and the ease of modulation, as well as the handling. Recommend it to any person who is part handy, and rides in the rain.

jules21 wrote:with the pad rubbing - if you can spin the wheel and it isn't appreciably retarded by the brakes, i wouldn't worry. very minor rubbing is of no consequence.


I'm planning on leaving it as it is for a few more rides (hopefully Thurs night & Sat) and see what the go is, and then think about it some more.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby jules21 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:13 pm

i have a front disc on my MTB. they are awesome - i wouldn't go back to caliper brakes. except, on my roadie and out of necessity :)
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:16 pm

For the rubbing...try releasing the quick release ( or bolt up) and then holding the brake on tight while you tighten it again...works sometimes.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby jules21 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:19 pm

another way, i think, is to do the same as above, but release the brake caliper mounting bolts rather than the axle QR.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:21 pm

jules21 wrote:another way, i think, is to do the same as above, but release the brake caliper mounting bolts rather than the axle QR.


sorry thats what i meant :oops:
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:22 pm

jules21 wrote:i have a front disc on my MTB. they are awesome - i wouldn't go back to caliper brakes. except, on my roadie and out of necessity :)



Go on, be one ofthe black sheep. Mega Euro pro :D :roll:
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Nobody » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:51 pm

A centering process that works for me:

1) Loosen off the quick release and the brake CPS bolts.

2) Tighten the quick release while you apply some downward pressure to the middle of the handlebar. This should make sure the axle is seated in the same place in the drop outs every time.

3) Tighten the pad adjustments so the brake is hard on.

4) Hold the caliper with your hand so it doesn't move in reference to the fork, then tighten the CPS bolts.

The reason I do this is the caliper is centered on the disc, but the disc tends to flex while you tighten the CPS bolts. Then when you release the pads the disc returns to normal and moves from where you have the caliper bolted to the fork.

This should go a long way to getting it centered. Keep an eye on the quick release as they can work themselves loose. Then all you should have to do is adjust the pads occasionally.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:57 pm

Step 3?...why don't you just hold the brakes on or put some tape around the lever to hold them on tight?.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Nobody » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:58 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Step 3?...why don't you just hold the brakes on or put some tape around the lever to hold them on tight?.

1) Waste of tape.
2) I don't think tape would hold it to the tolerances I'm looking for.
3) I'd have to clean tape residue off.
4) It is quite easy to wind in the pad adjusters, especially with the torx key.
5) It's the way Avid do it in this vid.
6) Because I can. I don't have hydros. :P
7) I added these numbers just for comic effect. :D
Last edited by Nobody on Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:02 pm

Get rid of one to three and use a cable tie :lol:
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Nobody » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:13 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Get rid of one to three and use a cable tie :lol:

1) Waste of a cable tie....


:P :lol:
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