Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby barefoot » Thu May 23, 2013 5:01 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:
barefoot wrote:That was a frustrating ride. Drove 20km, rode slowly about 4km waiting for the front brake to come good, admitted it wasn't going to, rode slowly 4km back to the car, drove 20km home to my previously unused bleed kit.


Why didn't you just undo the caliper and wrap it around the handlebars? You still would of had the other brake.


The caliper would have been just as effective wrapped around the handlebar as it was sitting impotently over the rotor, but that wouldn't have solved the problem.

Riding steep singletrack without a working front brake is not a fun way to spend a day. That's how I rode the 8km I did ride. It was crap.

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by BNA » Thu May 23, 2013 5:15 pm

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MattyK » Thu May 23, 2013 5:15 pm

So undo the rear brake, move it to the front wheel, and continue.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Wed May 29, 2013 10:19 am

And another brand releases a disc braked roadie ....

http://road.cc/content/news/84326-pinarello-release-disc-equipped-dogma

The forks aren't wavy and the rear profile has changed as well

The start of the avalanche ......
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Wed May 29, 2013 10:21 am

MichaelB wrote:And another brand releases a disc braked roadie ....

http://road.cc/content/news/84326-pinarello-release-disc-equipped-dogma

The forks aren't wavy and the rear profile has changed as well

The start of the avalanche ......


the best thing for me is it's the race geometry (Can't stand relaxed geometry)
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby barefoot » Wed May 29, 2013 11:00 am

MichaelB wrote:And another brand releases a disc braked roadie ....
The start of the avalanche ......


...of predictable comments from readers :mrgreen:

I can't get my head around the aesthetic nay-sayers.

"The hoods of the SRAM levers are ugly". Well, I reckon they look exceptionally comfortable as an additional hand position. And in my books, comfortable trumps ugly.

"Discs don't look as sleek as a normal road bike". Really? What's not sleek about getting rid of those ugly calipers flapping around the fork crown and halfway up the seat stays? Tuck a nice compact little caliper in around the hub / dropout area... that's sleek!

I think what they all really mean is "this is unfamiliar to me, and like everything to stay the same forever".

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Wed May 29, 2013 11:04 am

barefoot wrote:I think what they all really mean is "this is unfamiliar to me, and like everything to stay the same forever".

"now where is my type writer" is the end of that statement.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby rkelsen » Wed May 29, 2013 11:47 am

barefoot wrote:I can't get my head around the aesthetic nay-sayers.

Me neither.

My concerns are more along practical lines: http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/index.html

Current designs have done little to change anything mentioned in that article. Angled dropouts don't cut it. They all still mount the caliper on the back of the fork. And with weight being such an issue in racing, I don't think we'll see through axles on road bikes any time soon. Of course, I might be wrong in this respect, and to be honest I hope I am.

Then there ongoing issues with heat and fade. These issues were resolved on cars and motorcycles with larger, heavier rotors. This isn't an option on bicycles.

I'm sure that all of this will be sorted eventually, but for now, disc brakes aren't the "magic bullet" that they're made out to be.

The truly great thing about all of this is that there are engineers pushing the limits of current materials technologies. This will eventually lead to a great outcome, but we're not there yet.
barefoot wrote:I think what they all really mean is "this is unfamiliar to me, and like everything to stay the same forever".

What I really mean is that I'd like to keep my face. :)
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby cobba » Wed May 29, 2013 2:35 pm

rkelsen wrote:And with weight being such an issue in racing, I don't think we'll see through axles on road bikes any time soon. Of course, I might be wrong in this respect, and to be honest I hope I am.


375 gm 15mm QR road fork: http://whiskyparts.co/catalog/forks
$660: http://www.bikeman.com/FK5201.html
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby rkelsen » Wed May 29, 2013 3:19 pm

cobba wrote:375 gm 15mm QR road fork: http://whiskyparts.co/catalog/forks

Hey, that looks pretty good. :)
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Wed May 29, 2013 3:45 pm

Anyone for a cheap Stradalli disc ? One off ...

http://www.carbonroadbikebicyclecycling.com/2014-r7-full-carbon-road-bike-shimano-dura-ace-9070-di2-11-speed-rolf-vigor-wheels-trp-hydraulic

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Not 100% sure on onbly having 20 paired spokes on the front wheel .....
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Wed May 29, 2013 3:51 pm

rkelsen wrote: ....Then there ongoing issues with heat and fade. These issues were resolved on cars and motorcycles with larger, heavier rotors. This isn't an option on bicycles.

I'm sure that all of this will be sorted eventually, but for now, disc brakes aren't the "magic bullet" that they're made out to be.

.....



Article that was posted earlier discussing the fluids used and heat issues from the big suppliers ;

http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/11/tech-speak-brake-fluid-break-down-and-implications-for-road-disc-updated/


And an eralier post with some data regarding heat and power generation during stopping

MichaelB wrote: ...Interesting data/article re the development of the system and testing data re heating and fluid boiling. Seems like it aint gonna happen

http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/15/sram-hydro-r-hydraulic-road-rim-disc-brakes-unveiled-details-first-rides/

From there, they strapped on weight vests to get up to the 250lb system weight and started bombing down hill. Hydraulic brakes product manager Paul Kantor said they expected to boil the fluid during long descents while dragging the brakes, but that didn’t happen. Nor did it overheat during very rapid deceleration, but those tests did cause quick pad deterioration. So they switched from drilled alloy-backed pads to solid steel, and that held up better. The alloy backed pads with holes in the back were getting odd temperature spikes. They also switched to a different organic compound, a variant of what’s used on the mountain bikes. Metallic and semi metallic created too much heat.

With heat testing as a non-issue, and more power available to the rider, are there any other benefits to going to disc? Possibly. They found that sustained braking for five minutes generated about 550 watts of energy on a rim brake with carbon fiber rim, which made enough heat to blow out a tire. However, on discs, they could drag for 12 minutes, producing about 800 watts, with no brake failure and, obviously, no rim/tire failure.


I think there is a lot of misconception re heat/fade.

I haven't had it yet, and I'm not slim bugger.

"Magic bullet", agree that they are not. But they (disc brakes on a roadie) are better than rim brakes, as good as they are.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Mark Kelly » Wed May 29, 2013 4:11 pm

Rode up and down Mt Macedon (Gisborne side) last Sunday on my disc equipped touring bike, it and I weigh almost 100kg. It's a long and very steep descent (parts of it hit 15%) and you have to control speed before and into the village which is largely populated by idiots in 4WDs.

No fade. None, nil, nix, nada. I don't know what you have to do to get fade in disc brakes but I haven't achieved it yet.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jacks1071 » Wed May 29, 2013 4:51 pm

Mark Kelly wrote:I don't know what you have to do to get fade in disc brakes but I haven't achieved it yet.


Add more weight and more speed :-)
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby cobba » Wed May 29, 2013 5:41 pm

Mark Kelly wrote:I don't know what you have to do to get fade in disc brakes but I haven't achieved it yet.

Use rotors with a minimal braking surface and ride the brakes like the bloke in the following link.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/02/14/road-bike-disc-brakes-are-coming-but-will-they-work/
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Wed May 29, 2013 7:05 pm

disc brakes are a good spot not to be a real WW.

Especially in the discs ...
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby clackers » Wed May 29, 2013 8:50 pm

cobba wrote:
Mark Kelly wrote:I don't know what you have to do to get fade in disc brakes but I haven't achieved it yet.

Use rotors with a minimal braking surface and ride the brakes like the bloke in the following link.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/02/14/road-bike-disc-brakes-are-coming-but-will-they-work/


He was a DIYer who admitted his technique was poor and paid the price.

The bike manufacturers won't have repeated his mistake - check out the comment by the Volagi guy.

This is what you get by trying to beat other journos to the story and not waiting for an actual bike to come to market!

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Wed May 29, 2013 9:25 pm

clackers wrote:This is what you get by trying to beat other journos to the story and not waiting for an actual bike to come to market!
Yes, journos don't necessarily make the best engineers.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Wed May 29, 2013 9:40 pm

rkelsen wrote:My concerns are more along practical lines: http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/index.html

Current designs have done little to change anything mentioned in that article. Angled dropouts don't cut it. They all still mount the caliper on the back of the fork. And with weight being such an issue in racing, I don't think we'll see through axles on road bikes any time soon. Of course, I might be wrong in this respect, and to be honest I hope I am.
You are not wrong about the concern about QR loosening. However it has been covered earlier in this thread and is not usually a daily issue, only something that needs checking from time to time. The smaller the disc, the more often you have to check.

rkelsen wrote:Then there ongoing issues with heat and fade. These issues were resolved on cars and motorcycles with larger, heavier rotors. This isn't an option on bicycles.
Resolved on my bike and not an issue for the average person in AU.

rkelsen wrote:The truly great thing about all of this is that there are engineers pushing the limits of current materials technologies. This will eventually lead to a great outcome, but we're not there yet.
barefoot wrote:I think what they all really mean is "this is unfamiliar to me, and like everything to stay the same forever".

What I really mean is that I'd like to keep my face. :)
I'm sure that you'd keep your face if you pay a minimal amount of attention to them from time to time. I use them so I'm more likely to reduce injury in wet weather emergency braking. But then you've been hanging around this thread long enough to have read this all before.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Thu May 30, 2013 10:00 am

'Disc brakes will take over' - the man from TRP tells us why

The TRP guy recommends 160s for road use.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby rkelsen » Thu May 30, 2013 10:38 am

Nobody wrote:You are not wrong about the concern about QR loosening. However it has been covered earlier in this thread and is not usually a daily issue, only something that needs checking from time to time.

I'd much prefer to take the thru-axle option, mentioned by someone above. It negates 95% of my hesitance.

One day, I'm going to build myself an 'anti-bike'... Something comprised entirely of parts I don't like... Full carbon frame, disc brakes, and 45 speed electronic shifting... :lol: ... And I'll probably love it! 8)
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jacks1071 » Thu May 30, 2013 2:41 pm

Nobody wrote:'Disc brakes will take over' - the man from TRP tells us why

The TRP guy recommends 160s for road use.


I disagree. At the bike show in Taiwan this year road disc brakes wern't a big focus of any of the vendors. Sure there was a few of them on display but there was more fat bikes on display than there was road bikes with disc brakes.

Maybe fat bikes will take over? :-)
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby cobba » Thu May 30, 2013 3:59 pm

jacks1071 wrote:Maybe fat bikes will take over? :-)


http://www.bikemag.com/news/news-fat-and-furious/
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Thu May 30, 2013 5:57 pm

cobba wrote:
jacks1071 wrote:Maybe fat bikes will take over? :-)


http://www.bikemag.com/news/news-fat-and-furious/


And imagine if it was FAT with discs !!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Thu May 30, 2013 6:00 pm

cobba wrote:
jacks1071 wrote:Maybe fat bikes will take over? :-)


http://www.bikemag.com/news/news-fat-and-furious/
Sorry, they can't. Their rims are only 26". :wink:
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu May 30, 2013 8:44 pm

Fat bikes are old news. Gravel grinders are where it's at now.
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