Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby rkelsen » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:07 am

I think the neatest and easiest fix would be a nutted axle.

Personally, I don't understand why the manufacturers continue to put the caliper on the back of the fork.
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by BNA » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:00 am

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Nobody » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:00 am

MichaelB wrote:Was even thinking about some method of lockwiring, but will read the article and have a ponder, and check it before each ride .....
My Brooks Flyer tension nut was unwinding so I would have to adjust it after every one or two MTB rides. I wired it up and haven't had a problem since.

However, I don't think the skewer problem is an every ride occurrence for most people. I only look at mine occasionally on the rigid MTB. I might mark the non-clamp side to see if it is unscrewing on that side.
Last edited by Nobody on Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Anakist » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:11 am

rkelsen wrote:Personally, I don't understand why the manufacturers continue to put the caliper on the back of the fork.


There is a lot further from the front of the fork to the brake disc than the rear, considering the fork is thick and the dropouts are usually on the front. Having posts 50mm long (for example) to get the caliper out enough will cause a significant amount of flex on the posts. It would probably have to be a solid piece and even then it will be fragile being stuck out in the front of the bike!

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby sean-o » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:23 pm

mate, i think we've got the same bike! i got the same fork, bb7 road with a roundagon disc on a custom wheel - magura hub, 700c velocity rim. just mated to a much less tasty frame. surprisingly that fork isn't as harsh as i remember my old giant aluminium fork was.

the mosso is actually lighter than my older spesh hybrid carbon fork with cantis, and no more harsh. guess the triple butting actually works. played around with a white brothers carbon 29er fork a mate handed down to me, but it was suspension corrected and the handling was actually a little scary. theoretically longer trail and slacker headtube angle should make for lazier handling, but holy crap - twitchy twitchy twitchy.

certainly needs some bedding in right now, but suspect i'll run out of grip on the road long before i run into problems with lack of braking power. knocked 11mins off my 34km commute today! no significant problems with flex or regrets. i think i will almost feel a little sorry to head back to the old workhorse for the daily grind.

c'mon old timers and UCI sympathisers - get with the times and do it. the 2 extra grams isn't going to slow your sprint to the cafe, and may get you there with more skin. might make you more aero, too!
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:13 am

Welcome to the clun sean-o.

The Mosso fork seems to work quite well so far, especuially given that it's only $65 landed !!!

Did a commute to work this morning. Live only 5km the short way from work, but made the ride 37.5 by going via Mt Lofty :P and down Greenhill Rd. Yeehah :mrgreen:
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Anakist » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:29 pm

You were basically the inspiration for me to get this.

No lockers or undercover or anything so I hid it behind the door to the yard and locked it to a sign post!

Image

And here is the obligatory garage door shot.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:37 pm

Anakist wrote:You were basically the inspiration for me to get this.

No lockers or undercover or anything so I hid it behind the door to the yard and locked it to a sign post!

James


Looks sweet, so you added both discs ?
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Anakist » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:40 pm

Nope. Came with it from the factory. Cheapest bike I could find with 105 where it matters (5700 level from what I can see too!), drops and discs.

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:56 pm

Anakist wrote:You were basically the inspiration for me to get this.

...James


Now that I read the post properly ..... :roll: Still looks good, and makes me proud to get someone to spend tehir money :D

Mind if mention the $$ it costs ?

Is yours the 3 Disc or 4 Disc model ? What's the difference ?
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Anakist » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:12 pm

I have the 4 with 105 2x10 running gear, the 3 comes with tiagra 2x9. It was $1700, the Kona Honky Inc (105) was ~$2800, and the Dew Drop (Deore / SLX mix and match IIRC) was about $2100.

Both the Konas are steel frames and have braze ons for fenders and panniers (needed and wanted respectively) until I found the SKS Raceblades in <32mm tyre width. I am just going to get a Topeak beam rack or similar if I end up needing panniers and I have the clip on fenders so I am happy.

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:26 pm

That's good value for $1700 :D
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby jacks1071 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:51 pm

MichaelB wrote:That's good value for $1700 :D


Hey I worked out what the N45 was on the fork - its in relation to I think the lower bearing diameter (basically its the standard size..)
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:51 pm

Anakist wrote:And here is the obligatory garage door shot.
Image
Thanks for sharing this James.

I believe looks is the main reason why bike manufacturers use 160s on front and back (could be cheaper too due to volume) but you may be better served with a 180/185 on the front and a 140 on the back. Or at least a 140 on the back. A good 160 should be too much braking power for the back brake once bedded in properly.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Anakist » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:39 pm

I am probably going to go bigger on the front. I have a 185mm on the MTB that can be cannibalised. I just have to get a 185mm IS to IS adapter. The MTB has posts.

I hardly use the back brake even now. Heaps of power on the front. The disc setup has supremely modulation so I am not worried about locking up. Unless I want to!

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Crawf » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:52 pm

Anakist wrote:I am probably going to go bigger on the front. I have a 185mm on the MTB that can be cannibalised. I just have to get a 185mm IS to IS adapter. The MTB has posts.

I hardly use the back brake even now. Heaps of power on the front. The disc setup has supremely modulation so I am not worried about locking up. Unless I want to!

James


Damn you and your factory made rear disc mount. Damn you!

...Must visit the local frame modder this weekend and enquire about some welding.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby Anakist » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:04 am

Jacobite wrote:...Must visit the local frame modder this weekend and enquire about some welding.


There was a picture of a fixie with a rear disc a week or so ago. It had the caliper welded in between the seat stay and the chain stay, rather than just on the seat stay. Looked to be a good idea for bikes that weren't designed for rear discs.

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby AusAce » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:24 pm

Ride a disc on the front of my lowracer. Nothing like stopping from speed for a red light in one car-length. Or 500 meter downhill dead-end street 0mph-45mph-0mph
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby cobba » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:15 pm



Some more reading on QR's & Disc Brakes:
http://www.bikemagic.com/gear-news/are-quick-releases-safe/3322.html
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/20476/Disc-brakes-and-MTB-forks-Independent-testers-verify-axle-slippage-and-QR-loosening-
Vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=losWKtO69q4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIpo2Y-0rGk

MTB forks have 'Lawer Tabs' as a backup to stop QR axles coming out, not all of the road forks I've seen have these.


MichaelB wrote: A hydro STI version would be nice indeed :D


It can be done.

Might have to click on 'Translating...' on the first 3 links, they were in German/Swiss and I put them through Google Translate.
Hope Conversion: http://www.felix.ch/shop/01_shop/detail_felix.php?code=FE-058.501
Magura Conversion: http://velotraum.de/news/konverter-fuer-rennrad-sti-schalthebel-und-hydraulische-scheibenbremse
DBIKES Conversion: http://www.dbikes.ch/dbikes_konverter.html
Trickstuff Conversion: http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/eurobike-2010-trickstuff-cyclo-cross-disc-brake-converter-27723

The Original Pages:
http://www.felix.ch/shop/01_shop/detail_felix.php?code=FE-058.501
http://velotraum.de/news/konverter-fuer-rennrad-sti-schalthebel-und-hydraulische-scheibenbremse
http://www.dbikes.ch/dbikes_konverter.html

3 versions of the Velotraum Speedster with the Magura converter: Photo-1, Photo-2 and Photo-3

Stitcha has 2 dropbar road bikes with the Hope Hydro Adapter, the Morati SC 1.2 Discjockey and the Morati SR 1.1
Photo from above of the Hope adapter setup on the handlebar.

A home made job similar to the DBike conversion: Photo
Last edited by cobba on Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby rkelsen » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:33 pm

cobba wrote:MTB forks have 'Lawer Tabs' as a backup to stop QR axles coming out, not all of the road forks I've seen have these.

Yes, but according to one of the links you posted, lawyer lips don't necessarily do much if the force is great enough.

I think the fact that the dropouts are angled slightly forward is a better preventative measure. Through axles are even better still, but these seem to be limited to downhill bikes or heavy duty MTBs.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:51 pm

Thanks for those links, some more interesting data, but not much more really from the initial links mentioned, but good to see other sources.

Re the Hydro STI's - apart from the Velotraum Magura converter, they are a bit naff IMO. Messy and not really a 'solution', but something that works. Unless there is a mjor difference between hydro & cable, it'd be more of a PITA than a solution to me. Having separate levers is not a solution either.


So far (even with an Emergency stop heading into Norton Summit on the weekend) I'm more than happy with the disc so far.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:55 pm

Anakist wrote:I am probably going to go bigger on the front. I have a 185mm on the MTB that can be cannibalised. I just have to get a 185mm IS to IS adapter. The MTB has posts.

I hardly use the back brake even now. Heaps of power on the front. The disc setup has supremely modulation so I am not worried about locking up. Unless I want to!

James


I'd question the need for that (but I did want to do the same, as bigger has to be better doesn't it .....

Probably the only advantage I'd see is if you are doing lots of descents, that a bigger disc would give better heat disipation, but that'd be about it.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby cobba » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:15 pm

rkelsen wrote:
cobba wrote:MTB forks have 'Lawer Tabs' as a backup to stop QR axles coming out, not all of the road forks I've seen have these.

Yes, but according to one of the links you posted, lawyer lips don't necessarily do much if the force is great enough.

The lawyer lips in the article they were referring to probably looked like this, which take considerably less force or looseness for failure then the big ones on a MTB fork.
rkelsen wrote:I think the fact that the dropouts are angled slightly forward is a better preventative measure. Through axles are even better still, but these seem to be limited to downhill bikes or heavy duty MTBs.

I agree that forward facing dropouts are a good idea, through axles are a stronger way of holding a wheel on and with what you said about caliper placement on the fork, but I'd still rather have big lawyer lips on a fork then to not have them.

A few words by Lennard Zinn: http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/09/technical-faq/technical-faq-filing-off-lawyers-tabs_100616
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:55 am

Filing off lawyer tabs may be suitable for race conditions where a fast wheel chnage can be advantageous, but for everyone else, it's just a dumb idea.


Was thinking a bit more when building up the rear wheel (Velocity A23 rim and DA7700 hub) that whether the issue is the same for a road bike, primarily due to the positioning realtionship of the caliper & dropouts, as well as the angle of the dropouts.

Thoughts anyone ?
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby waynohh » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:31 am

When I had Ultegra SL, I preferred the discs on my other bike because ultegra was so rubbish. Now that I have rival instead, I MUCH prefer normal road calipers.

$400 for a single brake, extra weight, awful disc noise and inevitable freezing and alignment issues seems like a poor strategy imo when a whole better group only costs about twice what you paid for a single brake. And blah blah flame me, but having gone through several iterations of builds on the same bikes I should know poor strategy when I see it. /discuss & flame away
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! DONE - see p5

Postby MichaelB » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:07 am

Hi waynohh,

Interesting points that you raise, and quite valid for your case. Haven't used SRAM at all.

In MY case, my issue was more that regardless of pads in either 105 or DA calipers (5600 & 7800 series) in wet weather, the 1st brake application often meant that for what seemed like 100m at the time, the brakes did SFA (much like when you see a race car go off the track and get onto wet grass - seems to speed up).

Yep, I used Kool Stop Salmon pads (yes, some improvement), but as the routes I often ride at night during the week hasd many side roads with ignorant drivers, the braking was often a matter of "OH F^^K" :shock:

I felt that the disc may be an option, and so far, am very happy with it.

Yes it weighs more, but at the same time seemingly solved my issue above, and also gave me the ability to experiment and fiddle, and also had some other side benefits.

Meh, my bike, my value, your bike, your values. :D

But will one day have to try a SRAM equipped bike just to see what it is like.
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