Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:46 pm

baabaa wrote:Avid BB7S Mechanical Disc Brake Review
For those seeking that important 30 gram* loss of weight. ( * for front + rear and not including any possible rotor weight reduction)
http://urbanvelo.org/avid-bb7s-mechanic ... ke-review/

The new BB7S brakes ship with the HS1 rotor, which is said to be an improvement over the classic G2 Cleansweep rotor in that it displaces heat a little better and works better in wet weather. It certainly looks the part, and likely weighs a hair less. Speaking of weight, the BB7S caliper weighs just 197 g as opposed to the classic BB7′s which eclipsed 212 g.

always good to see a review based on such a nice orange bike :) seems that the owner has now swapped from drop bars to flats....

I just hope they don't squeal as much when they are wet.
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by BNA » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:20 pm

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby baabaa » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:20 pm

Hmm I have both style bb7s (that’s bb7not bb7Ss) road and mtn and found they really only screamed when newish, whenever this did happen, I would just squirt them down with the drink bottle, while a stream of water works when it is wet, but a bit of sports drink worked even better (try the green stuff, best not the blue as it is hard to find the target on the rear and,and, oh well, forget it.... ).
I also don’t use brifters and think this also helps in the sound dept as you can just flick the quick release button on the levers and then with a bit of a twist on the inline cable adjusters to get the pad gap right according to loose that bit of the prevailing road grime and pad dust.
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Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:43 pm

Mine use to always squeal on my Mtb no matter what I did. They were at their worst when cold and when wet, ie cold again. My XT ice techs have never been an issue.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:05 pm

MichaelB wrote:They rated them 4.5 stars, but how can they without a price ?
Maybe they just (rightly) assumed the price would be horrendous and based it on that.

MichaelB wrote:As one reader showed the SRP is 600 quid, which is over $1,000, which makes it a pretty expensive proposition, with the SRAM offering cheaper (but they are a mech system).

And if you have a mech system on a bike (as I do), then upgrading to Di2 is already expensive !! And SRAM RD & FD's are expensive as well !!! Wiggle have the S700 levers listed at A$360 a side and the Red versions at A$523 per side :shock: :shock: :|
So they are the Ferrari of disc brakes at the moment. I suppose someone's got to pay for all that expensive R&D. I just wonder how TRP do theirs so relatively cheaply. I'll give it 5 years, by then they might be at 105 or even Tiagra level. That is if disc brakes take off as much as I think they will. I'd say in 5 to 10 years most people's training or road endurance bikes will be disc. Just the hard-core racers will stay with rim brakes.

MichaelB wrote:Really, they need to be compared head to head with the SRAM system, but I don't have the cash to seriously look at either system, so i guess I'm stuck with what I already have. Oh dear :-)
Good for you, you dodged some (more) financial pain then. :)
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Ross » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:47 pm

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby mrgolf » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:01 pm

Interesting thread, but not enough time to trawl through every post.

I bought a Merida cx4 disc last year as a wet weather commuter for exactly the reason mentioned by a number of other riders here. Stopping power in the wet. Tyre grip is one thing, but knowing you will start slowing shortly after applying the brakes, rather than 10 or so seconds later is reassuring and reduces the need for sudden or late stopping where grip could be an issue.

That said, the cx4 runs mechanical Hayes cx5 discs. I am hankering for a wet commuter which doesn't weigh over 10kgs (carbon) and has standard road bike geo, rather than longer wheelbase cx geo. once I don't have to tow a double trailer with two kids in it, this will be the direction and disc tech will be cheaper and better so it will be hydro time for sure. That said, I have done some work on a tandem with bb7's and 203mm discs, and that is impressive.

In the meantime, anyone else run cx5's? I find that in the dry they are about even with my teggy brakes on my roadie. In the wet, they work way better than rim brakes. However, they tend to grab a little under braking in the dry leading to jerky slowing. Not sure whether it is disc, pad or brake. Any one know of any issues? Alternate disc? Alternate pad? I have considered changing to bb7, but I am not convinced a cheaper fix couldn't be found.

I would love hydro but also want a sub 6.5kg race bike. Tough gig.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:11 pm

mrgolf wrote:I would love hydro but also want a sub 6.5kg race bike. Tough gig.


not really
read from here: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=31034&start=1450#p1009374
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby JBark » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:33 pm

mrgolf wrote:However, they tend to grab a little under braking in the dry leading to jerky slowing. Not sure whether it is disc, pad or brake. Any one know of any issues? Alternate disc? Alternate pad?

Do you know what pads come stock? Organic and semi-metallic tend to have the best grab, whereas sintered generally has less grab, but longer life and the best wet weather performance. I replaced the stock organic pads that came with my 2012 CX4 (BB5s) with sintered, and have been pretty happy. They're definitely lasting heaps longer in wet weather, and they don't seem as grabby. I don't think they're quite as good in the dry, though, but it's really tough to tell.

They are supposedly noiser, especially in the wet, but I can't say I've noticed. But I'm a stickler for following the proper bed-in process when I get new pads, and that's where 99% of the squealing problems come from in the first place.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby mrgolf » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:09 pm

Jason, I had considered the !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! disc frame. I have a !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! 29er. To build one up to 6.5kgs would be pretty pricy, though. And the disc options are still heavier than calipers. For a race bike, you would probably need to run calipers, anyway. So, it's back to the lustful drawing board. One of these as a training bike would be ideal.

I have no idea what pads the cx5 run. The little research I have done has yielded no information. The discs are probably a bit entry level, though, so I could probably upgrade those as well.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby mrgolf » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:11 pm

Please read sloppy kiss as the last bit of the brand hongfu. I abbreviated.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:13 pm

mrgolf wrote:Please read sloppy kiss as the last bit of the brand hongfu. I abbreviated.


phew

and yes, re "race bike" you still need rim brakes

I've got a bike that's more than capable as a racing machine
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby mrgolf » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:26 pm

My race bike is a porky 7.3kgs. For now, it is my training and race bike. I want it to be my training bike and keep my race bike with the deep tubs and carbon pads ready to go. Needs to be down around 6.5kgs. The current bike is great for TT's, though, so I reckon my dreams of a hydro disc roadie mught be a couple of years away til my little girl gets too big for the trailer. She is only 2.... :cry:

Meanwhile, the CX4 needs better pads.... and a diet to lose a couple of kgs...
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Ross » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:06 am

jasonc wrote:
mrgolf wrote:Please read sloppy kiss as the last bit of the brand hongfu. I abbreviated.


phew

and yes, re "race bike" you still need rim brakes

I've got a bike that's more than capable as a racing machine


I don't think the club that Mr Golf and I belong to would care if he rocked up to a race with a disc brake equipped roadie. At least one of the tandems that regularly races with us has disc brakes and to my knowledge no one has ever said anything about it.

Technically the TWE wheels Mr Golf has probably haven't got the UCI stamp of approval either. :twisted:

I reckon for a training bike try and get a similar bike to what your race bike is, maybe the same brand/model but a couple of years or so older, throw same bars/stem/saddle on it as race bike, Ult or 105 group if Shimano and a set of Open Pro wheels and job done. That way it's not to different to the race bike.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby AndrewBurns » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:44 pm

Just train on your race bike, if you really must have some different wheels with more durable tyres.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby mrgolf » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:08 pm

I do that now. Thats why I want to change. 1. It's too heavy for climbing races. 2. I run 45mm tubs and changing the pads and wheels over every time I race is a pain in the arse, but is also a first world problem.

Anyway, I risk hijacking this thread.

To the OP: how have you found the difference in fork length? Has it upset the geo in any way? I have a set of Kinesis carbon CX forks on the CX4, and they are lighter than alu forks. But I know for a few hundred, you can get a reasonable set of road length disc tabbed forks, too.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby mrgolf » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:13 pm

Ross wrote:
jasonc wrote:
mrgolf wrote:Please read sloppy kiss as the last bit of the brand hongfu. I abbreviated.


phew

and yes, re "race bike" you still need rim brakes

I've got a bike that's more than capable as a racing machine


I don't think the club that Mr Golf and I belong to would care if he rocked up to a race with a disc brake equipped roadie. At least one of the tandems that regularly races with us has disc brakes and to my knowledge no one has ever said anything about it.

Technically the TWE wheels Mr Golf has probably haven't got the UCI stamp of approval either. :twisted:

I reckon for a training bike try and get a similar bike to what your race bike is, maybe the same brand/model but a couple of years or so older, throw same bars/stem/saddle on it as race bike, Ult or 105 group if Shimano and a set of Open Pro wheels and job done. That way it's not to different to the race bike.


Actually, the TWE wheels on my bike are his top shelf units and absolutely are UCI approved.

I dont just race Vets, though. And I am going to Aust Masters Games, so no discs for me on race bike. I agree on getting a similar bike, but my race bike is just a little heavier than I want it to be (by 1kg), but is about perfect for TT. I will have to set up the training bike (whatever that ends up being) as close to the geo on the race bike as possible.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:24 am

I wish my bike was less that 7.3kg. If your concerned with UCI regulations why are you aiming for a bike that weighs 6.5kg? Most of the pro's bikes are over 7kg and they certainly don't slow them down.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby mrgolf » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:23 am

I didn't say I was concerned by UCI regs. I am too old to even wish I was able to race at a level where UCI regs were adhered to strictly (Although Jens and Christian have given me a dash of hope). However, I have heard that wheel checks are not too uncommon at bigger races (national and state events?). Weight, as far as I have heard, is not. Discs, however, is an entirely different matter. There are many formats of racing where they wouldnt even pass the consideration for scrutineering. For the next few years, anyway.

Weight is another matter. My strength as a cyclist lies in climbing, I would rather have a lightweight race bike that is built for that purpose. I get along OK on my 7.3kg bike, but I am racing against guys who, in some cases, have 5.5kg bikes. I dont want to go that light, but lighter than 7.3 is desirable. I found a Stevens bike that weighs in at 4.9 off the shelf! Too light in my opinion.


Again, I dont want to hijack this thread more than I have...
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:09 pm

found another:

http://www.yishunbike.com/yishunbike-fm145-bb30bsa-700c-disc-brake-carbon-road-racing-frameset-p-880.html

Superlite Carbon road disc frame set
Model:YS-FM145 2013 model
(DISC brake system:135*9mm)
Frame/Fork/Clamp/Headset
W/T full inner cable routing system
W/T 1 1/8"-1 1/2" Asymmetric Head Tube,
W/T BB30 & BSA system available
W/T disc brake system
W/T DI2 system compatible
W/O Sticker & Painting
size: 48,50,52,54,56,58,60cm
seat post size;27.2mm
Test:EN14781 stantard test
Last edited by jasonc on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crawf » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:30 pm

Somethings wrong with that link Jason, or is it just me?
edit: ok BNA is blocking it. FM145

AKA FM166, Cervelo R5
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:38 pm

I dunno. have put the full link there for people to copy and paste.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:25 pm

Discs not likely anytime soon in UCI racing.
http://road.cc/content/news/95113-why-w ... rakes-road
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:35 pm

It is my job to try to find an agreeable way to encourage innovation while respecting the traditional attitudes of UCI. There is a gap and we must build a bridge, not stand on one side of the gap or the other and sling arrows.


I'm happy with that. He hasn't said "NO"
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby AndrewBurns » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:56 pm

What a garbage position by the UCI though seriously.

UCI wrote:1 Disc brakes are still considered as technical innovations on the road and have to be submitted to the UCI and approved by the Equipment Commission to be allowed in competition after one or several test events.


Translation, it's inovation and we don't like that, it has to be done before it can be done (don't question the logic!)

UCI wrote:2 Until today no disc brakes adapted for the road cycling was never presented to the UCI.


Ignoring the horrible english and double negative that invalidates their point, translation: nobody has given us any to play with. Despite both SRAM and Shimano now making them as part of road groupsets.

UCI wrote:3 Challenges on the road are very different from the mountain bike or cx with
• Higher speed
• Longer braking time
• Higher temperature accumulation
• Bigger disk which means bigger issue in case of crashes
• Braking behaviour that may block the wheel and make the bike slip
• Difference of braking performance between disk brakes and rim brakes that may cause crashes inside the peloton


Most of these are technical issues that have already been solved or were never issues in the first place. Also:
- Bigger disk which means bigger issue in case of crashes. I'm sorry what? What issues, how does a larger disk make any difference (a larger disk would actually run colder than a smaller one).
- Braking behaviour that may block the wheel and make the bike slip. You can already lock the wheels with modern rim brakes plenty easily, disk brakes are supposed to reduce this by giving better braking modulation. Also you're not going to see pro riders braking hard enough to lock their wheels ever, unless they're about to crash anyway in which case it makes no difference.
- Difference of braking performance between disk brakes and rim brakes that may cause crashes inside the peloton. Once again disk brakes don't make it possible to stop any faster than rim brakes, just make it easier for you to do.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:30 pm

Don't stress. As the article states there's is nothing stopping you buying a disc brake equipped road bike. You just won't be able to race it.

I still give it 2 years and they will be legal. Shimano and Sram have a lot of marketing clout. That's what will change the UCI's mind.
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