Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Workshop tales, trials and disasters.
Maintenance tips, techniques and myths.
Technical discussion, description and outright lies

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby AndrewBurns » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:01 pm

I've been riding my disk-braked CX commuter bike for a little while now and I'm loving the disk brakes. It has Avid BB7's which I've found have plenty of power (enough to lock the wheels from the hoods with two fingers easily which is all you ever need), I used to think the Veloce rim brakes on my road bike were good but the BB7's are effortless in comparison. I do think they seem happier with hard braking from high speed compared to longer low-pressure braking, seems that if you slow down gradually they make a bit of a scraping/squealing noise while if you brake hard at speed they make a pleasant whirring noise and scrub off speed extremely fast. I'm very conscious of avoiding heat build-up and pad glazing on descents so I've trained myself to pulse hard and release multiple times rather than drag the brakes, I'm so used to it now I have to force myself to not do it in the car :P
Image
AndrewBurns
 
Posts: 992
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:36 pm

by BNA » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:47 pm

BNA
 

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby baabaa » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:47 pm

Based on your theory that cheap bikes 5 years ago had a bengal part on them the bikes were rubbish, then shimano must be junk as well because no doubt there would have been a couple of shimano components on them??
What? You are spamming a product which did not sell years ago as a better option than BB7s and claim "Most of the top tandem riders / suppliers seem to be offering this brake as their top model upgrade item". OK then, well who are these top riders/ suppliers that do just that.
Sorry, but when I looked at ( picked up / fiddled with / spent quality one on one time with) bengals in the LBS I saw a very, very cheap option to BB7s and put my money down on what I thought and still consider to be the better option. BB7s.
User avatar
baabaa
 
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:47 am

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jacks1071 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:02 pm

baabaa wrote:Based on your theory that cheap bikes 5 years ago had a bengal part on them the bikes were rubbish, then shimano must be junk as well because no doubt there would have been a couple of shimano components on them??
What? You are spamming a product which did not sell years ago as a better option than BB7s and claim "Most of the top tandem riders / suppliers seem to be offering this brake as their top model upgrade item". OK then, well who are these top riders/ suppliers that do just that.
Sorry, but when I looked at ( picked up / fiddled with / spent quality one on one time with) bengals in the LBS I saw a very, very cheap option to BB7s and put my money down on what I thought and still consider to be the better option. BB7s.


I've posted the link to one of the best information sources you'll get on cable operated disc brakes which endorses the Bengal MB700T. The toughest possible test for these brakes is on a road tandem.

Your reasoning is based on what is most likely a completely different product that you saw 5 years ago on a $400 bike. I'm sorry but I can't agree with your logic.

I'm recommending the Bengal because there is heaps of evidence to support them as a good product, they are also inexpensive. I only have some to sell because I had to buy a box full of them to get the one set I needed for my own use.

Tandem suppliers who offer the Bengal as a more expensive upgrade from the Avid? Calfee, Precision Tandems and Santana to name three - if you need more, google is your friend.
Our Website is: http://www.pro-liteoz.com Find us on Facebook by searching for "Pro-Lite Australia"
User avatar
jacks1071
 
Posts: 2786
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:47 pm
Location: Mackay, QLD

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby PawPaw » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:51 pm

Even Colnago are getting in on the act.

http://www.colnago.com/c59-disc/
Image
User avatar
PawPaw
 
Posts: 1244
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:53 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby eeksll » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:52 pm

jacks1071 wrote:Tandem suppliers who offer the Bengal as a more expensive upgrade from the Avid? Calfee, Precision Tandems and Santana to name three - if you need more, google is your friend.


not really wanting to get into the other argument as I know Jack all ...

are these companies not taking you for a ride, charging you more for a cheaper brake even if it is better?
eeksll
 
Posts: 1231
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:36 pm

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jacks1071 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:21 am

eeksll wrote:
jacks1071 wrote:Tandem suppliers who offer the Bengal as a more expensive upgrade from the Avid? Calfee, Precision Tandems and Santana to name three - if you need more, google is your friend.


not really wanting to get into the other argument as I know Jack all ...

are these companies not taking you for a ride, charging you more for a cheaper brake even if it is better?


They can charge what they want, its up to the customer if they want to pay or not.

The Bengals were not easy to source, I didn't find anyone except the tandem places selling them and they were quite expensive via those suppliers. Until recently the only people using cable disc brakes on a road bike were the tandem guys.

The price I've listed them at isn't an indication of what you'd normally pay. I'm selling them for a low price as I only bought them to get a set for myself and I just want to get some of my costs back. If it helps someone else out with a good set of brakes then everyone is happy.
Our Website is: http://www.pro-liteoz.com Find us on Facebook by searching for "Pro-Lite Australia"
User avatar
jacks1071
 
Posts: 2786
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:47 pm
Location: Mackay, QLD

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby baabaa » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:38 am

Your reasoning is based on what is most likely a completely different product that you saw 5 years ago on a $400 bike. I'm sorry but I can't agree with your logic.
Did I ever say this? Nope. I have seen these thing loose in a box. And as mentioned they sat and sat and sat. The LBS was almost giving them away and still no takers.
Yes google indeed. see the "Tandem Parts Kit AAA - BEST" at the bottom.
http://www.tandemseast.com/parts/kits.h ... 0Kit%20AAA
Seems most of the brands like cannodale, comotion, da Vinci, hokitika, seven cycles all come with bb7s so they too must be wrong.
Anyway your call on these, I think most people would like to put the best brakes on a bike you can afford and the fact that bengals are now rare and hard to get is a warning sign to me.
I hope you have plenty of space in your shed for the stock but at least you will have plenty of spare parts.
User avatar
baabaa
 
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:47 am

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:35 am

At least some pro teams are itching to get disc brakes allowed on the tour...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pho ... aix/217173

Note the BB7 callipers and HSX rotors with titanium rotor bolts, same as I run on the rear of the volagi. SRAM hurry up and release your road hydraulics!!
Santa Cruz Blur TRc XTR
Volagi Liscio Ultegra
Crittski
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:06 am

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jacks1071 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:59 am

baabaa wrote:Your reasoning is based on what is most likely a completely different product that you saw 5 years ago on a $400 bike. I'm sorry but I can't agree with your logic.
Did I ever say this? Nope. I have seen these thing loose in a box. And as mentioned they sat and sat and sat. The LBS was almost giving them away and still no takers.
Yes google indeed. see the "Tandem Parts Kit AAA - BEST" at the bottom.
http://www.tandemseast.com/parts/kits.h ... 0Kit%20AAA
Seems most of the brands like cannodale, comotion, da Vinci, hokitika, seven cycles all come with bb7s so they too must be wrong.
Anyway your call on these, I think most people would like to put the best brakes on a bike you can afford and the fact that bengals are now rare and hard to get is a warning sign to me.
I hope you have plenty of space in your shed for the stock but at least you will have plenty of spare parts.


I agree, all those brands can't be wrong, with the exception of possibly Cannondale who most likely don't do custom options - they offer the Bengal as an upgrade option from the BB7.

I don't need any spare parts, all the parts are metal and don't wear out or fail with the exception of brake pads that are readily available. Thats why I wanted them and my point completely.

They also don't come in a "loose box" - I already posted the picture of the box on our site and FB so I don't know what you saw but it clearly was not the same product.
Our Website is: http://www.pro-liteoz.com Find us on Facebook by searching for "Pro-Lite Australia"
User avatar
jacks1071
 
Posts: 2786
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:47 pm
Location: Mackay, QLD

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby baabaa » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:47 am

I give up.
Are your bengals "tight" in a box? What I saw was just the same as your photo, brakes, bolts, rotors, same box with the same logo.
You are trying to sell something on this site as an "upgrade" without any proof what so ever, I am saying buyer beware.
User avatar
baabaa
 
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:47 am

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jacks1071 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:03 am

baabaa wrote:I give up.
Are your bengals "tight" in a box? What I saw was just the same as your photo, brakes, bolts, rotors, same box with the same logo.
You are trying to sell something on this site as an "upgrade" without any proof what so ever, I am saying buyer beware.


Yes the calipers are zip tied into the box and don't float around, the packaging is very good.

The supporting evidence is here in the link that was posted a couple of pages back:

http://tandemgeek.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/hot-disc-brake-news-or-news-about-overheated-disc-brakes-if-you-prefer/

The benefit is not additional braking power, the benefit is no plastic parts that can melt and fail.

Not everyone will get their BB5/BB7's hot enough to experience the problem so some people like yourself might not care about this possible issue.

I have already cooked a set of BB5's on less than a 1km decent so for me, I want the added peace of mind that I have no plastic bits to melt and fail.

We've already seen a failure of hydraulic brakes on a road bike due to over-heating, didn't end well. Perhaps he used the wrong rotors as mentioned by some posters, however on the Bengal at least the only thing you can cook is the pad & rotor, no fluid to boil, no plastic caliper parts to fail. They've shown to be the most reliable cable operated caliper on the market.
Our Website is: http://www.pro-liteoz.com Find us on Facebook by searching for "Pro-Lite Australia"
User avatar
jacks1071
 
Posts: 2786
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:47 pm
Location: Mackay, QLD

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:28 pm

baabaa wrote:I give up.


Good idea, better to agree to disagree than to keep bashing him up over wanting to stock something that some may find useful for their context. :roll:

The dude is not a spammer mate...
Santa Cruz Blur TRc XTR
Volagi Liscio Ultegra
Crittski
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:06 am

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:04 pm

In the end disc brakes are about added safety. Bengals would be my first choice for a tandem. Popularity or perceived value should have little to do with it.
Nobody
 
Posts: 6495
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:20 pm

Crittski wrote:At least some pro teams are itching to get disc brakes allowed on the tour...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pho ... aix/217173

Note the BB7 callipers and HSX rotors with titanium rotor bolts, same as I run on the rear of the volagi. SRAM hurry up and release your road hydraulics!!
I think the wording of "...already banned the technology for the 2012 road season." to be a bit dubious, since banning is different from not approved or not even assessed yet.
Nobody
 
Posts: 6495
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:17 pm

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/04/17/vol ... road-bike/

Looks like 135mm rear hub spacing is taking hold...

I am interested in how they may have made this new bike compatible with upcoming hydraulic lines from an internal routing perspective.
Santa Cruz Blur TRc XTR
Volagi Liscio Ultegra
Crittski
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:06 am

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:49 pm

Might be of interest to MichaelB if he hasn't already seen it.
http://road.cc/content/news/56886-just- ... ster-video
Nobody
 
Posts: 6495
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:42 am

Hiya,

Saw the new Volagi release and was surprised that they went steel, but will be good to see more pics ;

Image

The 135mm rear spacing is probably more because it is CX/touring oriented, so it will be interesting to see the flow on effect to the carbon frame Liscio (if any).

Wonder what the weight is ?


I like the Decade Tripster, and was close to buying a frame, but couldn't get one, so got the Kona instead.
User avatar
MichaelB
 
Posts: 6824
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:07 am

I get the sense that Volagi will be going with 135mm from here on in actually ;)

Another hydraulic converter from Magura which will convert the cable from the lever to their hydraulic rim brakes.
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/04/19/mag ... ted-forks/
Santa Cruz Blur TRc XTR
Volagi Liscio Ultegra
Crittski
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:06 am

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:55 am

Crittski wrote: Another hydraulic converter from Magura which will convert the cable from the lever to their hydraulic rim brakes.
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/04/19/mag ... ted-forks/


:shock:

Ugh, looks clunky and ugly. The plastic cover makes it look bigger than it probably is. Be interesting to see what the weight is, as it seems to be largely plastic moulded parts, rather than the machined alloy of the Parabox.

And damn expensive too. Almost triple the price of the TRP Parabox. Also almost double what the TRP Di2 Hywire was expected to sell at, and that includes the shifters !!!
User avatar
MichaelB
 
Posts: 6824
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:49 pm

MichaelB wrote:Saw the new Volagi release and was surprised that they went steel, but will be good to see more pics
Why are you surprised? Steel is one of the best materials for the application they have chosen. They obviously wanted something more durable that could be tuned with enough flex to take advantage of their frame design. So they only had a choice of Ti or steel as Al would probably crack with the kind of compliance they are looking for. Carbon may be some people's first choice for many things but it isn't the most popular for touring and commuting.

MichaelB wrote:The 135mm rear spacing is probably more because it is CX/touring oriented, so it will be interesting to see the flow on effect to the carbon frame Liscio (if any).
There may be no effect to the Liscio, but I still think 130mm spacing will be harder to find in a few more years.


MichaelB wrote:I like the Decade Tripster, and was close to buying a frame, but couldn't get one, so got the Kona instead.
I mainly linked the article for the Parabox brakes on it.
Nobody
 
Posts: 6495
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:11 am

I expect that Volagi may introduce an update to the liscio when hydraulic Di2 group sets become available. When they do this I think they will go with 135mm rear hub spacing. Its not like you need to be backwards compatible with non-disc road wheels. WIth the number of awesome 135mm disc hubs already available, and the trend for cross disc bikes going with 135mm, I can't see it playing out any other way.
Santa Cruz Blur TRc XTR
Volagi Liscio Ultegra
Crittski
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:06 am

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:02 pm

Hooray, that god awful looking paint job on the C59 wasn't the only option Colnago are releasing, this one looks like the business (I would pay extra for black callipers and lines!). How do I get my hands on this bad boy??

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/04/20/eye ... er-levers/

Image

Where'd they hide the battery though??
Santa Cruz Blur TRc XTR
Volagi Liscio Ultegra
Crittski
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:06 am

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby trailgumby » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:36 pm

MichaelB wrote:Hiya,

Saw the new Volagi release and was surprised that they went steel, but will be good to see more pics ;

Image

Very attractive bikes. :D

Those Tektro brake discs suck harder than a pool pump, though. Unless you like massive fork flutter. :x
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

http://www.facebook.com/Drive2WorkDay
User avatar
trailgumby
 
Posts: 9926
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby trailgumby » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:44 pm

AndrewBurns wrote:I'm very conscious of avoiding heat build-up and pad glazing on descents so I've trained myself to pulse hard and release multiple times rather than drag the brakes, I'm so used to it now I have to force myself to not do it in the car :P

Heat build-up is a non-issue for cable brakes - no hydraulic fluid to boil. :D

I suppose in theory you could cook the pads, but if you use the standard Avid Juicy metallic pad that the BB7 caliper uses, that also is a non-issue.

A bit of squeal? kinda goes with Avids a bit. Just make sure you keep chain lube and greasy fingers away from your discs and if you make a mistake, invest in some clean rags and disc brake cleaner from your local autoparts store for such occasions.
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

http://www.facebook.com/Drive2WorkDay
User avatar
trailgumby
 
Posts: 9926
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney

Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:49 pm

trailgumby wrote:Those Tektro brake discs suck harder than a pool pump, though. Unless you like massive fork flutter. :x


It was that and their propensity to develop nasty surface rust that saw me swap them out for a pair of XX HSX rotors. I flirted with an ice tech rotor on the front, but I couldn't get it adjusted right, not for want of trying so the HSX came back on. The braking surface of the ice tech was very irregular, must have been a bad rotor cos the others on my MTB are perfect.
Santa Cruz Blur TRc XTR
Volagi Liscio Ultegra
Crittski
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:06 am

PreviousNext

Return to The Shed

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Support BNA
Click for online shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Cycling Express Cycling Express
Ebay Ebay AU
ProBikeKit ProBikeKit UK
Evans Cycles Evans Cycles UK
JensonUSA Jenson USA
JensonUSA Competitive Cyclist