Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:50 pm

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by BNA » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:38 am

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:38 am

Nobody wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Saw the new Volagi release and was surprised that they went steel, but will be good to see more pics
Why are you surprised? Steel is one of the best materials for the application they have chosen........


Surprised, as didn't see it coming. Great design for steel too. It would be interesting to see what the ride is like between the two.

I can certainly say that the ride on the carbon Liscio was bloody superb :D :D
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:57 am



Interesting article, with some great lines ...

...the brakes lived up to the promise of hydraulic discs – hard, fast stopping from high speeds was safe and easy. We took the bike up and down the steep hills surrounding the Laguna Seca Recreation Area where Sea Otter is held, and repeatedly stopped as quickly as possible. Modulation was good enough to rapidly slow down at the bottom of hills without locking up the wheels...


But the levers need more work ...

Formula’s levers are so new they don't yet have a name. The working title is RR1. As with the name, the functionality of the levers is a work in progress. Ergonomically, the hoods and levers on the whole are good. The absence of mechanical innards frees up the design considerably. The hoods are slightly thinner – and on the underside, longer – than SRAM or Shimano mechanical systems. We were able to wrap four fingers around the hood between the lever and the bar.

The shifting, however, doesn't work well. The two parallel and slightly overlapping shift levers are far too thin, which resulted in misshift after misshift. A wider surface area for each, or a redesign with paddles, would help greatly. When riding on rough chip-seal roads, the levers also vibrated noisily when our hands weren't wrapped around them. Their pronounced curve back towards the handlebar made for good braking ergonomics while in the drops, but the upper protrusion away from the hoods limited leverage when riding on the hoods


Can't wait for Eurobike ... :D
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:01 pm

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/04/22/soc ... tegration/

Hopefully their final product doesn't look so superglued together, but I think that this solution will be getting my money, better start saving for it and a Di2 upgrade!!
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:29 pm

Crittski wrote:http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/04/22/soc12-closeup-look-trp-hywire-hydraulic-road-disc-brake-with-di2-integration/

Hopefully their final product doesn't look so superglued together, but I think that this solution will be getting my money, better start saving for it and a Di2 upgrade!!


Interesting lever shape - Given that currently the Ultegra levers can be had for about $400 a pair, $599 for the levers and calipers is pretty good.

Ribble recently had the full 13 piece Ultegra Di2 setup fior $1,500. Sell the calipers and shifters to recoup $400, and then buy the Formula/TRP brakes and you have full hydro with electronic shifting.

It will be interesting to see what the SRAM system looks like too.

Hurry up guys .....
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jacks1071 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:37 pm

We managed to fit the 203mm Rotors both Front and Rear on the Tandem yesterday, hopefully test riding tonight as long as my stoker gets off work on time.

I didn't think the rear was going to clear the chainstay and as such I didn't have the correct R-203 bracket available, it turns out there was a big spacer on the hub that I removed to create about 7mm of clearance with the 203mm rotor fitted to the rear. We've made up a temporary bracket using spacers and shims, its not too neat but structually sound and it should work fine until the propper bracket arrives.

The bike looks very mean with the big rotors, we will bed them in this week and build up some trust before attempting some serious climbing next week. I'll put some pictures up in the next few days, I am hopeful that this will provide the braking performance and consistancy we've been looking for.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:46 pm

jacks1071 wrote:We managed to fit the 203mm Rotors both Front and Rear on the Tandem yesterday, hopefully test riding tonight as long as my stoker gets off work on time.




Pics, or no claiming "mean-ness" !!
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby baabaa » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:16 pm

Not quite road bike disc yet but could be an option to look cool and stay cool.
I guess with a 11-36 you could just run a single ring up front?

Image
Image
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/04/22/kap ... ut-design/

http://www.kappiuscomponents.com/
Offered in 28 and 32 hole configurations for 130 mm road, 135 mm QR disc mountain bike, and 142×12 mm disc mountain bike. Interchangeable end caps are included on mountain bike hubs.
20 and 24 hole road hubs coming soon.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:27 am

MichaelB wrote:
jacks1071 wrote:We managed to fit the 203mm Rotors both Front and Rear on the Tandem yesterday, hopefully test riding tonight as long as my stoker gets off work on time.




Pics, or no claiming "mean-ness" !!


I'll get some pics this week, brake power is significantly increased which I suspect is due to the larger rotor size. The bigger rotor seems more effected by flex in the frame and fork so you can hear the pads rub from time to time.

I can't do stoppies on the tandem but at full power the wheel is on the verge of locking so I think its as good as I can hope for with a cable setup.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:29 am

jacks1071 wrote:I can't do stoppies on the tandem


damn it - that'd be a cool pic.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:49 pm

Sven to race Cyclocross nex year using the Colnago/Formula Di2 disc system for 2013 ..

Sven Nys and his Landbouwkrediet squad will race Formula’s new Di2-compatible road disc brakes on their Colnago bikes next cyclocross season, according to Formula engineer Giancarlo Vezzoli.


Formula Di2 road discs: Good enough for Nys

Rotors on the Formula setup are 140mm front and rear, which they’ve found to be the ideal size in their own testing.

“I tried 160mm, and to me it was a bit scary, to be honest,” said Vazzoli. “With the power, it is difficult to keep the front wheel from washing out.” When asked whether he or the rest of the Formula R&D department had encountered any overheating issues, the answer was an emphatic “No.”

“We tested extensively on the big climbs in the Alps and the Dolomites. 2,000 meters straight down, dragging the brake: No problems.”


No EPS version in the works though as Campagnolo were not willing to colaborate.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:59 pm

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:10 pm

MichaelB wrote:SRAM's new road caliper .... ?
Looks likely since it appears to be smaller with a more aero looking shape.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jacks1071 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:58 am

MichaelB wrote:
jacks1071 wrote:We managed to fit the 203mm Rotors both Front and Rear on the Tandem yesterday, hopefully test riding tonight as long as my stoker gets off work on time.




Pics, or no claiming "mean-ness" !!


Here they are, sorry my photographer skills are not so good!

Front:

Image

Rear:

Image

These are the Bengal MB700T calipers with Avid 203mm Rotors.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Wed May 09, 2012 9:54 am

MichaelB wrote:Hiya,

Saw the new Volagi release and was surprised that they went steel, but will be good to see more pics ;

Image

The 135mm rear spacing is probably more because it is CX/touring oriented, so it will be interesting to see the flow on effect to the carbon frame Liscio (if any).

Wonder what the weight is ?


I like the Decade Tripster, and was close to buying a frame, but couldn't get one, so got the Kona instead.


Just had a better read of the blurb on the new Viaje (pronounced vee-aye-eh), and noticed this little blurb ;

It should go without saying, but of course the Viaje will be equipped with disc brakes for the ultimate braking performance. With an internally run hose or cable route, riders can chose between mechanical disc brakes with full housing, or hydraulic systems.


Note my highlighting ...... Now that is something I'd LOVE to see on the Liscio :shock: :D

Lets keep our fingers crossed :P
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Wed May 09, 2012 10:00 am

baabaa wrote:Not quite road bike disc yet but could be an option to look cool and stay cool.
I guess with a 11-36 you could just run a single ring up front?

Image
Image
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/04/22/kap ... ut-design/

http://www.kappiuscomponents.com/
Offered in 28 and 32 hole configurations for 130 mm road, 135 mm QR disc mountain bike, and 142×12 mm disc mountain bike. Interchangeable end caps are included on mountain bike hubs.
20 and 24 hole road hubs coming soon.


Just had a look at their site, but then saw the prices :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: $US 700 for a rear hub, $300 for a front, and $250 for the cassette :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Ummmm, I think I'll pass ..... :roll:
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby twizzle » Wed May 09, 2012 10:35 am

jasonc wrote:
jacks1071 wrote:I can't do stoppies on the tandem


damn it - that'd be a cool pic.


That might not be the best idea either, I've seen pics of a collapsed frame (downtube failed) due to a heavy rider brake testing with a disk brake on a 'dale touring frame - broke both his wrists, luckily he was wearing a motorcycle helmet.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby cooperplace » Sun May 13, 2012 12:46 am

Pics, or no claiming "mean-ness" !![/quote]
I think its as good as I can hope for with a cable setup.[/quote]

the amount of power you can transmit to the disc pads is exactly the same for cable and hydraulic systems.
Please be nice to me, I'm not very bright.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Sun May 13, 2012 6:10 am

cooperplace wrote:Pics, or no claiming "mean-ness" !!
I think its as good as I can hope for with a cable setup.

the amount of power you can transmit to the disc pads is exactly the same for cable and hydraulic systems.


So? Not sure I get your point...
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Sun May 13, 2012 9:44 am

cooperplace wrote:...the amount of power you can transmit to the disc pads is exactly the same for cable and hydraulic systems.
Although I have cable discs, I disagree. If that were the case, most cars would still have cable brakes and clutches, since they are obviously cheaper to manufacture. Some cars may still have cable clutches, but I think they would be hard to find in new cars.

I remember my father telling me about the horrible cable braked cars of many years ago.

Don't get me wrong. Cable discs work fine for the rotor sizes I've chosen. It's just that if my drop bar levers were hydraulic, I might be able to run a 160mm rotor instead of a 185. Having said that, I like cables and so might be one of the last to convert to hydraulic when available.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Hangdog98 » Mon May 21, 2012 7:57 pm

Hydraulic fluid doesn't impart any magical 'power-up' qualities to the brake system. It simply transfers energy from your hand to the pads, the same as a lever would do or a cable. The amount of leverage from hands to pad can be measured by the amount of lever travel to the amount of pad travel but not the method of transfer. Cable stretch may be the same as hose swell or trapped air compression so that isn't really a factor either. The difference you feel that you may interpret as power comes from the hydraulic system being able to move opposing pistons, sometimes 4 or even 6, to apply pressure to both sides of the disc over a greater swept area. Cable systems like AVID have one fixed pad and one moving pad which applies pressure and relies on the slight bending of the rotor to effect a squeeze of the disc. The difference in actual clamping pressure is insignificant but the difference in the range of modulation is. Hydraulic systems have much better feel (comparing AVID BB5 to AVID Juicy) and this translates into better braking but not necessarily better brakes.

The cable systems of old cars weren't much worse than the hydraulic systems of the same era. Automotive cable operated brake development virtually ceased when hydraulic systems became available.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby toolonglegs » Mon May 21, 2012 8:10 pm

Car brakes have engine vacuum assisted brake boosters amplify the braking pressure... so the use of fluid over cable does allow "power up" qualities... not really much use on a velo unless you want to shove a hose into your engine :P .
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Mon May 21, 2012 8:18 pm

found a CX that looks the goods:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/04/24/loo ... roduction/

With an Ultegra/FSA build, Easton EC90XC carbon 29er mountain bike wheels and Look pedals, it came in at 17lbs 13oz.

that's just over 8kgs. so you can imagine with some decent wheels and normal tyres, you'd have a great bike.

only problem will be cost...
EDIT: $3k US for the frame...
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Tue May 22, 2012 9:10 am

toolonglegs wrote:Car brakes have engine vacuum assisted brake boosters amplify the braking pressure... so the use of fluid over cable does allow "power up" qualities... not really much use on a velo unless you want to shove a hose into your engine :P .


I think you'll find that the main reason for vacuum assistance in auto mobiles is that we need to preserve the pathetic leg muscles of the pilots, so that they can actually stop a car without imparting too much effort.

Same reason as why the cars with auto's have a HUGE brake pedal.

I won't even get started about brake pad materials and useless GM Holden brake feel .....
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Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby toolonglegs » Tue May 22, 2012 3:22 pm

Try stopping a car rolling down a hill in neutral with the engine turned off... You lose a huge amount of braking force.
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