Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:49 pm

I predict that a new volagi will be hydraulic with internal routing. Not the next new volagi (check their Facebook or twitter feed for latest pics of their third model), but A new volagi!
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by BNA » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:52 am

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:52 am

Don't follow twatter or farcebook so can you post pics for backwards techless people like me ? Ta
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:41 pm

https://www.facebook.com/volagi

does that take you there? just sign up you stick in the mud!
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:32 pm

Crittski wrote:https://www.facebook.com/volagi

does that take you there? just sign up you stick in the mud!


Haven't and wont farcebook, or twatter, or rumbler or whatever other social media there is ... Just don't believe in it !!!

Just looked on their web page, and it's a Liscio with the TRP Parabox converter.

If I could buy a frameset here, that's what I'd already have !!!!

Yep, and allinternal cabling for Liscio v2
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:04 am

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/07/24/vol ... mall-size/

As I predicted, V2 will be 135mm rear spacing, di2/eps/hydraulic hose internal routing.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:28 pm

Yummy indeed.. I am surprised by the internal HYD routing, but LOVE it.

Definitley is now firmly at the top of the list !!!! I'll be saving like mad, and eagerly awaiting the local launch. Meant to be around September !!!

:mrgreen:

Oh, and Salsa have released a Ti double disc road bike using the Enve carbon fork and BB7 calipers. Apart from the fork, looks like a pretty plain bike, but still another option
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:14 pm

MichaelB wrote:Oh, and Salsa have released a Ti double disc road bike using the Enve carbon fork and BB7 calipers. Apart from the fork, looks like a pretty plain bike, but still another option


it's definitely a tourer rather than a road bike with regards to specs.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby baabaa » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:06 pm

it's definitely a tourer rather than a road bike with regards to specs.
Which what who specs? If you mean the specs for the Colossal (the new road bike) you must have a crystal ball.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:46 pm

baabaa wrote:it's definitely a tourer rather than a road bike with regards to specs.
Which what who specs? If you mean the specs for the Colossal (the new road bike) you must have a crystal ball.


http://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya_ti/

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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:58 pm

baabaa wrote:it's definitely a tourer rather than a road bike with regards to specs.
Which what who specs? If you mean the specs for the Colossal (the new road bike) you must have a crystal ball.


Yep, I was talking about the Colassal, not the Vaya

http://reviews.mtbr.com/salsa-cycles-el-mariachi-colossal-beargrease

The road specific carbon fork was developed by Enve for Salsa for 140mm rotors (with cable actuated disc brakes). The Colossal sports Hed Belgium rims (blacked out w/new graphics). The rotors are SRAM HSX Centerlock rotors. The frame is double-butted seamless 3/2.5 ti. The tubes are shaped for the chainstays and seatstays to provide a smooth ride.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby jasonc » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:14 pm

MichaelB wrote:
baabaa wrote:it's definitely a tourer rather than a road bike with regards to specs.
Which what who specs? If you mean the specs for the Colossal (the new road bike) you must have a crystal ball.


Yep, I was talking about the Colassal, not the Vaya

http://reviews.mtbr.com/salsa-cycles-el-mariachi-colossal-beargrease

The road specific carbon fork was developed by Enve for Salsa for 140mm rotors (with cable actuated disc brakes). The Colossal sports Hed Belgium rims (blacked out w/new graphics). The rotors are SRAM HSX Centerlock rotors. The frame is double-butted seamless 3/2.5 ti. The tubes are shaped for the chainstays and seatstays to provide a smooth ride.


that seriously looks clean.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Uncle Just » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:37 pm

Nice clean lines. My concern is that it specs a 140 disc rotor on the front. If it is intended as a road bike with all the downhill speed that can entail, it may be undersized. I run 160f/140r on my CX and the 160 is certainly needed for fast road descents. Any thoughts?
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby baabaa » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:58 pm

I like the idea of 140/ 140. Salsa have a solid background in dropbar discs ( I bought my disc la cruz in 2008)so the 140 would have been put across the slide rule many times.
I have been looking at moving down from 160/160 to 160f and 140r or 140/140 for quite a while. Problem is I have three wheelsets running on two bikes and todate it has just been a bit of a bother to swap out both sets of rotors. Will now be pushing this 140 test along.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:33 pm

Uncle Just wrote:Nice clean lines. My concern is that it specs a 140 disc rotor on the front. If it is intended as a road bike with all the downhill speed that can entail, it may be undersized. I run 160f/140r on my CX and the 160 is certainly needed for fast road descents. Any thoughts?
I'm more concerned with 140s not only for heat dissipation under extreme conditions (they are brakes after all) but also for the leverage problem of the brake pad as a pivot point stressing the axle/QR more. This force causes QR skewers to come loose. Rim brakes aren't a problem as the pivot point is so far away. I have not had a recent problem with my 185 disc on the road, but I have had my skewer work loose on my 160 MTB. With a 140, I'd expect the skewer to work loose fairly regularly.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby baabaa » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:01 am

I doubt that a large organisation like QBP, which owns Salsa, would open itself up to any potential liability cases with something as simple as using the wrong skewer for the job.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby queequeg » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:25 am

Nobody wrote:
Uncle Just wrote:Nice clean lines. My concern is that it specs a 140 disc rotor on the front. If it is intended as a road bike with all the downhill speed that can entail, it may be undersized. I run 160f/140r on my CX and the 160 is certainly needed for fast road descents. Any thoughts?
I'm more concerned with 140s not only for heat dissipation under extreme conditions (they are brakes after all) but also for the leverage problem of the brake pad as a pivot point stressing the axle/QR more. This force causes QR skewers to come loose. Rim brakes aren't a problem as the pivot point is so far away. I have not had a recent problem with my 185 disc on the road, but I have had my skewer work loose on my 160 MTB. With a 140, I'd expect the skewer to work loose fairly regularly.


I am running 160mm rotors on my CX commuter. I do some pretty quick descents and not once has my QR skewer even hinted at moving during my 7,000km of cycling on this bike. If it did, the first thing I would check for is a dodgy skewer and/or not closed tight enough.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:50 am

queequeg wrote:I am running 160mm rotors on my CX commuter. I do some pretty quick descents and not once has my QR skewer even hinted at moving during my 7,000km of cycling on this bike. If it did, the first thing I would check for is a dodgy skewer and/or not closed tight enough.
Good for you. But if you do a search online, I'm sure you could find people who have had problems. It has been linked to somewhere in these 39 pages before.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:15 am

queequeg wrote:
Nobody wrote:
Uncle Just wrote:Nice clean lines. My concern is that it specs a 140 disc rotor on the front. If it is intended as a road bike with all the downhill speed that can entail, it may be undersized. I run 160f/140r on my CX and the 160 is certainly needed for fast road descents. Any thoughts?
I'm more concerned with 140s not only for heat dissipation under extreme conditions (they are brakes after all) but also for the leverage problem of the brake pad as a pivot point stressing the axle/QR more. This force causes QR skewers to come loose. Rim brakes aren't a problem as the pivot point is so far away. I have not had a recent problem with my 185 disc on the road, but I have had my skewer work loose on my 160 MTB. With a 140, I'd expect the skewer to work loose fairly regularly.


I am running 160mm rotors on my CX commuter. I do some pretty quick descents and not once has my QR skewer even hinted at moving during my 7,000km of cycling on this bike. If it did, the first thing I would check for is a dodgy skewer and/or not closed tight enough.


I agree, I have never had a qr loosen on any bike I have owned. Braking forces don't loosen qr axles, a properly engaged qr can only loosen by flipping open, or by turning, neither of which braking forces enable.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Nobody » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:08 am

Below is the explanation of why and the danger. I'm glad you both don't have a problem. Maybe the designs have improved over the last few years.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/ho ... k_release/
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:25 am

baabaa wrote:I like the idea of 140/ 140. Salsa have a solid background in dropbar discs ( I bought my disc la cruz in 2008)so the 140 would have been put across the slide rule many times.
I have been looking at moving down from 160/160 to 160f and 140r or 140/140 for quite a while. Problem is I have three wheelsets running on two bikes and todate it has just been a bit of a bother to swap out both sets of rotors. Will now be pushing this 140 test along.


I run 180/160 on my Kona (and have run 160/160) with no real issues on another bike.

For me, I wouldn't think that 140 is a good option. I'd rather have a bigger disc and have more 'reserve security' in terms of heat dissipation (as Nobody hinted at).

I think Salsa have used the 140 front is primarily that is what the ENVE fork has been designed/made for.

Volagi are sticking with 160mm, whilst Colnago seem to have opted for the 140mm front.

I'd rather have a bigger disc and be happier in the knowledge on a big hard descent rather than having to wonder. The 20g difference is not worth the worry.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby queequeg » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:44 pm

Nobody wrote:
queequeg wrote:I am running 160mm rotors on my CX commuter. I do some pretty quick descents and not once has my QR skewer even hinted at moving during my 7,000km of cycling on this bike. If it did, the first thing I would check for is a dodgy skewer and/or not closed tight enough.
Good for you. But if you do a search online, I'm sure you could find people who have had problems. It has been linked to somewhere in these 39 pages before.


I am not saying it can't happen, but rather that it won't happen on a skewer that is correctly fitted. All the examples in the link of cases where the wheel has come out has been due to a loose QR (which also included bolt-ins or bolt-through....anything with a slotted dropout).
If the QR is coming loose it can be due to many factors, but high on my list would be a) not closed with sufficient force, b) poor quality QR (I have had a few of these, such as skewers where the cam is screwed onto the skewer and allows the threads to be stripped).
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Uncle Just » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:05 pm

Ok thanks all. I was aware of the skewer issue (which I've not experienced) but my "concern" was with the 140 disc setup for fast descents. For example even with the 160 on the front, the other day I descended Walmer St from the Kew Bvd and being the late braker that I am, I noticed the squealing and drag from the front rotor as I got to the path onto the bridge. I stopped on the footbridge and spun the front wheel and it was warped due to the fast descent. I let it cool down and it was back to normal ie free running, no drag. This maybe a different issue perhaps to the rotor size but I'm also wondering if I have mismatched the rotor with the BB7 front. I'm running an XT/Saint centrelock on the front (not Icetech) whereas the previous setup, a 160mm Avid bolt on, does not squeal and warp with the heat buildup on fast descents. Your thoughts gentlemen.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby baabaa » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:39 pm

“The super technical man” from Hope, Allan seems to believe in 140mm for drop bars with thin tyres for a reason. No one could question that Hope know about brakes and how to make good ones that work. Watch the vid for comments
http://road.cc/content/news/46984-eurob ... -converter

Re rotors I just use bog standard avid cleansweeps and roundagons no problems yet and while I don’t log the ks most weeks I commute 300ks between the two bikes with discs. Find the cheapest way to replace pads and rotors is just buy new full bb7 kits.
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby Crittski » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:16 pm

I never have any problem with 160F and 140R discs coming down coot-tha where you must stop before hitting a t-intersection after doing nearly 80km/hr. No warpage (Avid HSX rotors and BB7 callipers on my road bike), no squealing, no fade, just predictable, linear responsive braking when I need it in all weather conditions. I have never warped an XT rotor before either, and after descending the last bit of "powerful owl" off the front of coot-tha from channel nine on the MTB multiple times (you can hear the pinging from the cooling rotor after you stop), if that didn't reveal any brake deficiencies, I don't know what will... (M985 XTR hydraulic calipers and XT Icetech rotors). Not saying that you can't have issues, just that I never have despite me pushing my brakes pretty hard...
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Re: Adding a front disc to a road bike !! And Now Hydro!

Postby bosvit » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:29 pm

(AT) Nobody

As far as I am aware both 140 and 160 rotors clamp at the same place on the same hubs?

If this is the case how can a 140 place more stress on the hub than a 160? According to the physics I am aware of the bigger the disc (attached to the same hubs with the same bolt positions) the higher the torsional stress on the hubs for the same amount of braking pressure on the hand brake.

Also how does rotational force (eg braking on a rotational wheel) effect lateral force eg opening a quick release? Or is the problem that the wind up nut end (for want of a better explanation) of the quick release starts to unwind?

Not trying to be a smart arse just it not compute to my physics oriented brain :shock: 8)
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