Jamis Build Thread

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Postby europa » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:52 am

Image

She's HERE

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Not that I'm excited or anything 8)

Image

Typically, my horrid old camera doesn't do her justice, she really is a lovely colour blue with just a hint of purple.

A run over her with the ruler puts her right in there with the Europa - same top tube length, seat tube length a cm lower (which will be good actually) and a tall enough headtube and steering tube to allow me to put the bars in a half reasonable position.

Brand new frame - no sign of head stem bearings ever been fitted. A few tiny chips here and there, including the ones I added as I discovered she doesn't sit securely on the bottom bracket :roll:

Weight? 3.1 kg - feels like nothing to lift.

After postage (she had to come by FedEx in the end), she's cost me $242 :D

Now for the build ... and decisions have been made there :wink:

Richard
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by BNA » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:55 am

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Postby MichaelB » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:55 am

Bargain there Richard.

I got a couple of quotes for getting a frame from the USA, and had some prices at USD $600 - for the shipping alone ?????

I'd love to know the box dimensions and weight for other possible encounters on eBay.

What was the actual postage costs charged ?

Noice blue der fella !!
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Postby europa » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:59 am

MichaelB wrote:What was the actual postage costs charged ?


$56 US - that's via FedEx. Originally they quoted a bit less for USPostal but the box was a bit wide and the cost went through the roof.

It's a lovely blue in real life.

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The Cunning Plan

Postby europa » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:17 pm

The Cunning Plan

That Can Not Fail ... if I throw enough money at it.

Yes, you've seen the options.
1 - sell the Siamese into sin and finance a complete new groupset and wheelset
2 - rip what bits fit off the Trek520 which leaves me having to supply brakes and a wheelset
3 - convert her to a fixed gear touring/sportser which involves buying the impressively priced ENO hub

The one I've chosen is the cheapest ... and probably the most sensible in the short term, maybe even the long term - option 2.

The aim is to create a Gentleman's Sportster ... a relaxed bike that is fast, comfortable and able to roll off long days in the saddle while leaving the rider fit enough to drink his breakfast the next day.

The procedure

- either take the headset off the Trek520 and install that or install a new one (any thoughts on the advisability of this?)
- Nitto Noodle bars from the Trek520
- hopefully one of my stems works, if not, invest in yet another stem
- Brooks B17 and Bontrager seat post from the Trek520
- Ultegra shifters and triple crank from the Trek520
- DeoreLX rear derailleur and 105 front derailleur from the Trek520
- SRAM 11-32 cassette from the Trek520

so far, cost has been limited to headset (possible - can I reuse the old one?) and maybe a stem.

The Trek520 uses V-brakes which this frame is not set up for, so enter my Shimano600 dual pivot brakes at no cost because these were just sitting in the shed (I bought them for the Europa but they didn't have the reach) :D

The Trek520 wheelset is wider than I wanted and uses DeoreLX hubs, which don't fit in the Jamis, so here is where it gets expensive.

- Velocity DeepV rims. I can get them from my lbs at a reasonable price.
- Ultegra 6500 front and rear hubs from Chainreaction - this is actually cheaper than buying cartridge hubs from the lbs.
- great heap of spokes and build the wheels myself :shock:
- labour costs to sort out the mess I make of building the wheels :oops:
- Detonator 28mm tyres

So, apart from a few ancillary bits, which could still cost the earth, the conversion will be done by essentially just building a wheelset :D Still expensive though, but having looked at cheap wheelsets, I don't actually save a great deal and a cheap wheelset will probably have a limited life anyway, not to mention no resale value. I think I'm better building good wheels from the start. Cost is about $350.

Where does this leave the Trek520? A frame, wheelset and Avid V brakes that can all be parted and sold, hopefully quite easily (the Maverick wheels are lovely creatures) and for excessive sums of money.

So she'll be a new frame with old bits, but the bits are only about 2,500km old, kms all done by me so I know what they've gone through and how badly they've been maintained - I doubt I'll notice a month or so down the track.

What about the fixed gear conversion? Can still be done - simply build an ENO hub into the rear DeepV rim and take off the shifters. It's not really practical for a few months anyway.

I can't wait to start spending money ... er ... building 8)

Richard
Last edited by europa on Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby europa » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:20 pm

Fitting the brakes.

Image

The Shimano600 brakes fit nicely and will reach the wheels (I borrowed the wheels off the lad's bike to check). The grey colouring fits the frame nicely :D and so does the blue 'Shimano600' logo you can just see on the brake arm closest to you.

Richard

I need a better camera don't I :roll:
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Postby MichaelB » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:28 pm

Good thing I managed to convince you to strip the Trek .....

Can't wait to see it evolve, and for me to start a similar thread based on the Cinelli Proxima ....
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Postby europa » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:30 pm

MichaelB wrote:Good thing I managed to convince you to strip the Trek .....


That was always my first thought, but when I realised what wouldn't fit on the Jamis, I went cold on the idea. Your prompting brought it back to the surface. Thanks.

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Postby Birdman » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:03 pm

Its a good looking project you have begun.

Can't wait to see the end product.

Mitch.
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Postby 531db » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:09 pm

Sensible sounding build plan..... :D
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Postby Mulger bill » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:16 pm

Go the new headset Richard, while the unit on the Beast will be perfectly serviceable, don't you think something so fundamental to your new girls being should smell like cardboard when fitted?

Apart from that, it sounds like a very cunning plan my Lord. More photos!

Shaun

If I had to name that colour, methinks "Giant Blue" would be closest. :wink:
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Postby europa » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:28 pm

Mulger bill wrote:If I had to name that colour, methinks "Giant Blue" would be closest. :wink:


I understand that the Jamis employee who stole that colour now works for Giant

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Postby europa » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:09 am

The wheel building jig and tension guage arrived last night ... at about half past six - the courier driver was not his usual, cheery self.

Image

The tension guage is really neat. There's a pin at either side of the bottom part of the guage, and one in the middle. You clamp the spoke with the two on one side of the spoke and the single on the other, and the guage measures the deflection and hence the tension in the spoke. Velly neat and easy to use ... if a bit time consuming (I checked out the wheels on the Europa with it :D)

I ordered a pair of Ultegra 6500 hubs from Chainreaction - yes, pricey hubs but even including postage the price is comparable with good hubs from the lbs (and the shop bloke admitted the Ultegra hubs were far better). I'm getting both for less than an Ultegra rear from the lbs so this is one place where price outweighs loyalty.

I had uncovered a source of spokes that was about half the price of buying them from the lbs ... then discovered late yesterday that he doesn't sell them with nipples and nipples cost the same as the spokes. Chainreaction sells spokes ... but only for 26" wheels. So it looks like I'll be buying spokes from the lbs at $1 a spoke and for 72 spokes :shock:

Fired up spocalc - an Excel based program for computing spoke lengths. If I was scared before, I'm terrified now, so I'll be checking the required lengths with the lbs when I order them.

I'll head down to the lbs today or tomorrow to order rims and spokes - any thoughts on whether I should wait until the hubs arrive before ordering the spokes? Just to make sure they aren't some odd size?

While I'm at the shop, I'll look at getting a new headset fitted.

Thoughts on type of spoke are appreciated too - I'm pretty sure the standard spoke from the shop is straight 14 guage.

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Postby MichaelB » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:29 am

europa wrote:
I'll head down to the lbs today or tomorrow to order rims and spokes - any thoughts on whether I should wait until the hubs arrive before ordering the spokes? Just to make sure they aren't some odd size?

While I'm at the shop, I'll look at getting a new headset fitted.

Thoughts on type of spoke are appreciated too - I'm pretty sure the standard spoke from the shop is straight 14 guage.

Richard


Can you wait till I get my wheels so that you can get the spokes for that at the same time ? They were meant to be posted on Friday.

I would wait until you get the rims & hubs to confirm, unless the shops will take them back if you stuff it up.

The tensiometer that you mention is much the same as I used to use in the RAAF to check flight control cable tensions. Very sensitive (the ones we used) and quite good.

Can you get bladed spokes from the LBS ?
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Postby europa » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:53 am

We'll buy the bits for your wheels as needed mate - I don't mind going in there every day if need be. They build a lot of wheels so spokes will be easy and fast to get.

The tension guage does appear to be very sensitive.

Give them a ring about the bladed spokes - the tension guage will hande them too :D

Richard

I think I'm getting used to this frame staring at me without being worked on ... I WANNA RIDE IT NOW :(
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Postby europa » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:34 pm

Image

Ritchie Logic Comp headset fitted :D
$40.45 from my lbs, supplied and fitted. Could have done it myself but they have the big tool to press the bearings in and I'd have been mucking about with stuff that only pretends to do the job.

Had a chat about rims and spokes. I'll be waiting until the hubs come in before ordering the rims, largely because his eyebrows rose when I told him they were 36 hole hubs - they can only get Ultegra in 32 holes. For a moment we shared the thought of buying 36 hole rims and then having 32 hole hubs arrive. Similarly with the spokes, we'll get the hubs and the rims and go from there.

He's quite supportive of me building the wheels, either that or very polite. He also likes my Shimano600 brakes, reckons he's got a soft spot for the old 600 gear.

Dropped in at the chemist on the way home and made the lady's day when I asked her for some nail polish ... and then held up the frame. We hunted around and got a very close match, though not quite enough purple in the blue. We agreed that matching the paint probably would have been easier in the seventies :roll: It'll be good though.

At the rate I'm chipping this frame, it'll be off to the powder coater rather than needing a crummy bottle of nail polish to touch it up :roll:
No, the paint isn't soft or brittle, just a rather frisky 'clumsy gene' I'm afraid.

Next job? Wait for the hubs to arrive. Dammit, I'm not sure I can do that one :oops:

Richard
Last edited by europa on Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Birdman » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:10 pm

What does the actually "Headset" do???
Is that the part which connects the handlebars to the fork?

Mitch.
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Postby stryker84 » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:12 pm

As I understand it, same thing the BB does for the crankshaft - it's what contains all the bearings that allow it to swivel.

?
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Postby Birdman » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:27 pm

But where does it actually go??? Is that it on the top, if so how far into the tubing does it run, and where does the handlebar clamp/stem go?

Mitch.
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKYS. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.

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Postby Bluerider » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:28 pm

Oooo how did I miss this thread yesterday, very nice Richard and what a great Blue :) as you said I'm sure in the flesh would look heaps better.
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Postby europa » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:33 pm

You have the frame with a head tube - that tube the fork passes through.

The fork has a steering tube, that big tube that sticks up through the frame.

The headset is the set of bearings that mates that steering tube to the frame.

If you look on the photo, you can see a black band between the head tube and the top of the forks - that's the bearing cup at the bottom of the headset. The black band at the top of the head tube is the top bearing cup. Those bearing cups are pressed into the head tube of the frame.

A bearing cup is the race the bearings themselves run in.

The top of the forks has a bearing cup pressed onto it and a set of ball bearings (in this case they are balls fully enclosed in a cassette but they may be loose balls or balls trapped in a cage) run between the cup on the forks and the cup in the bottom of the head tube.

At the top of the head tube, a set of bearings (again a cassette in this case) runs between that cup and a cup that just slips down over the steering tube.

At this point, the whole shebang can slide up and down, because the top bearing cup on the steering tube is loose. The bike's neck (the arm the bars are bolted to) and some spacers slip over the top of the steering tube (I've got a bit of carboard tube there at the moment) - you need enough spacers so the neck (or top spacer) sticks ABOVE the steering tube ie, the whole assembly is a bit long. A top cap then sits on top of all this with a bolt through its middle that screws into a special nut inside the steering tube. When you do that bolt up, it pulls the neck and spacers down onto the headset bearings and that's how you adjust the tension and amount of free play in the whole setup - with that bolt you'll see if you look at the top of your steering. The neck is then clamped tight to the steering tube, not only to stop it flopping from side to side, but to hold the whole thing together.

Here's Sheldon Brown's take on the thing.

It's actually a lot simpler than it sounds, though probably makes more sense once you've actually pulled one apart.

Richard
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Postby Kalgrm » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:34 pm

Birdman wrote:But where does it actually go??? Is that it on the top, if so how far into the tubing does it run, and where does the handlebar clamp/stem go?

Mitch.

This is the one I bought this morning. They go inside the head tube of the frame at the top and bottom of that tube (in the pic shown in the link, there is a line around the middle - that is where the two pieces are laid on top of each other for the photo.)

Cheers,
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Postby Birdman » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:52 pm

Understood thanks very much.

I'm much better off when i can see pics as well so i know what i am actually looking at.

Mitch.
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Postby Mulger bill » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:12 pm

Looking better every post Richard.

To the important question.... What work have you got planned for the purple unit in the background? :wink:

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Postby europa » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:12 pm

Mulger bill wrote:What work have you got planned for the purple unit in the background? :wink:


Ahh, my daughter's scooter. The more she plays on that, the more likely she is to learn balance ... and she's getting there :D

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Postby Mulger bill » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:26 pm

Wot! No tinkering? :shock:

What's the bottom line and dealer for the wheelbuild kit if I may?

Shaun
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