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Seven Speed cassette onto a Nine Speed hub

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:48 pm
by europa
She looks a bit sad like this doesn't she.

Image

One of the many options, assuming someone doesn't throw money at me, is to convert her into a better version of the Sow's Ear.

Image

The Black Beast would then become the bike that tows the dog trailer, the tag-along, does the shopping, explores dirt roads, does gentle off road work. Regardless of utter appropriateness of this frame for the job, it's the frame I already own, which is always a good start.

Let me make this clear, if I go this route, eventually she'd be wearing decent components (DeoreLX or XT), not the crap from the Sow's Ear, but it did occur to me that merely shifting the bits from the Sow's Ear to the Black Beast would be a cheap way of kickstarting the project.

The initial sticking point, and I'm sure I'll find others, is that the Sow's Ear is 7 speed while the free hub on the Black Beast is 9 speed.

To go 9 speed will mean buying a cassette plus shifters - yes, freely available second hand on ebay but it's not something I want to spend money on right now, better to keep using what I've got in that case. However, the swap over would allow me to test the theory.

Can I take the 7 speed cassette off the Sow's Ear and put it on the rear wheel of the Black Beast? Are spacers or adaptors needed?

Richard
need I upgrade my meds?

Re: Seven Speed cassette onto a Nine Speed hub

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:55 pm
by mikesbytes
europa wrote:Can I take the 7 speed cassette off the Sow's Ear and put it on the rear wheel of the Black Beast? Are spacers or adaptors needed?


Assuming the 7 speed cassette is a shimano spline style then yes you can with the addition of a spacer.

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:58 pm
by europa
Thanks mate.

Oh goody, I've got another build project :D

Richard

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:06 pm
by Kalgrm
I'm not sure of this, but the chain width/sprocket thickness might be an issue. A nine speed chain might be too thin to cover a 7 speed rear gear.

I reckon I've got an old 9 speed cassette (11-32) at home which you can have for the price of postage. I'll confirm when I get home.

Cheers,
Graeme

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:23 pm
by mikesbytes
Kalgrm wrote:I'm not sure of this, but the chain width/sprocket thickness might be an issue. A nine speed chain might be too thin to cover a 7 speed rear gear.

I reckon I've got an old 9 speed cassette (11-32) at home which you can have for the price of postage. I'll confirm when I get home.

Cheers,
Graeme


Use 7 speed chain ?

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:26 pm
by europa
Kalgrm wrote:I'm not sure of this, but the chain width/sprocket thickness might be an issue. A nine speed chain might be too thin to cover a 7 speed rear gear.

I reckon I've got an old 9 speed cassette (11-32) at home which you can have for the price of postage. I'll confirm when I get home.

Cheers,
Graeme


Thanks for the offer Graeme but I'll pass on it at the moment. I'm pretty sure you're right about the chain width but initially, it won't be a problem as I'd be shifting everything from the Sow's Ear moving to the Black Beast, shifters, chain, the works. Erk, that means I have to use the horrible crankset too :shock:

Funnily enough, I may find the Trek frame is now magically the 'right' size. Why? The Sow's Ear's neck is adjustable, and doesn't creak when I haul on it, which gives me some flexibility. The loss of reach won't matter too much because I'll be aiming at a more upright seating position, and the bars on the Sow's Ear have a riser built into them.

Even if that doesn't work, I've got a spare neck that has a 40 degree rise on it though it's fairly short (I was supplied the wrong one and didn't realise it was until I'd used it too much to return it). I could even use the stem extender that annoyed me so much in drop bar mode, but which might just work in flat bar mode. In any case, the low standover height will be an advantage for this sort of useage.

We'll see. If it doesn't work, I just rebuild the Sow's Ear and flog off the Trek frame.

The Sow's Ear gets regular use now and I'd be looking at the Black Beast replacing her but with extended use. That extended use won't come with the crappy components but I'll be able to test the theory and maybe justify buying good components ... or going ahead and selling the Trek frame and wheels.

And if it really works, I won't have to fit a carrier to the Jamis except for the rare occasions the Black Beast isn't the most appropriate :D

Richard

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:19 pm
by MountGower
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:51 pm
by europa
MountGower wrote:Giving a bike a new job doesn't make it fit. Exploring dirt roads and doing gentle off road work as you put it, on a bike with the stem set up that thing had on it the last time I saw it, would be a good way to fall off and do yourself an injury.


You're right there.

On the conversion side of it. I have a 40 degree neck that I'd bought in an attempt to fix her earlier problems. That didn't work then because I was sold the wrong length (much shorter) and didn't realise until quite a few kms had passed and so couldn't return it. However, even if it had been the wrong length, those bars would have been too low.

The bars on the Sow's Ear have a 5cm rise on them. That 5cm was what the stem extender gave me on the drop bar version of the Black Beast.

You can see the bars here.

Image

So this time, she'll have a solid neck (though steep) with those red bars and that should put the bars at around saddle height if not a bit higher. Once again, I'll have that vagueness brought on by having the bars so far above the steering head, but it'll be a more solid connection and, more importantly, the bars will be much wider ie, more leverage.

On that question of leverage, the Sow's Ear muscles the tag-along without a murmer. When I tried the tag-along on the Black Beast, I was fighting to control it as the lass swung from side to side behind me - there's play in the tag-along hitch which I didn't think important until I tried to tow the thing with the narrower bars on the Black Beast. The extra length in the bars makes a huge difference.

I think there's a very good chance that the extra width of the mountain bike bars will more than compensate for the bars being so far from the headset.

On the surface, the experiment is going to cost me a set of tyres and some effort. Hmmph, I seem to remember finding flaws in that argument in my other build. Either way, it'll be cheaper than buying a bike and if nothing else, I'll learn a bit in the process.

Richard

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:54 pm
by europa
Methinks the intial steps should be a saddle, neck and bars on the Black Beast to see how it looks, before doing anything with the drive train.

Richard

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:57 am
by Mulger bill
europa wrote:Methinks the intial steps should be a saddle, neck and bars on the Black Beast to see how it looks, before doing anything with the drive train.

Richard


Easier cleaner bits first sounds wise, but please paint those bars if you go ahead. :?

Shaun

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:49 am
by europa
In the outside chance that I actually get away with this, I'll look for a set of nice chrome bars, but it'll look like a dog's breakfast for awhile 8)

Anyways, what's wrong with red? Isn't it supposed to be faster?

Richard

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:22 am
by MountGower
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:16 pm
by MichaelB
Richard,

The Diamondbackl currently has the cassette off, and as you know is 7sp, so if you need to do any quick & dirty trials, let me know

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:32 pm
by europa
Now there's a thought. You don't want to upgrade her groupset do you?

Richard

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:10 pm
by europa
The remains of the Trek are up on ebay. Bid early and bid high, but make sure you've got the money 8)

You lot ought to club together and buy it from me because it if doesn't sell, you can bet the loony ideas will keep coming :twisted:

Richard

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:22 pm
by mikesbytes
Selling your plane engines to pay for more bike parts?

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:27 pm
by europa
I looked at swapping that 7 speed cassette of the Sow's Ear this arvo ... and it's a spin on unit :shock: Man that bike's cheap and bottom end :roll:

Richard