creaking crankshaft

[ausmomo]

Hi,
just wondering if a creaking crankshaft is normal or something to worry about?
It creaks on every right-hand-side pedal downstroke. On the left downstroke there's no noise.
My bike's only 3 weeks old, and only done 150km.

cheers

[mitzikatzi]

No it's not normal and I would worry about it.

My bike's only 3 weeks old, and only done 150km.

Take it back to the shop you brought it from.

[scotto]

loose bottom bracket. . .

[master6]

don't discount it could be the pedal, the cleat, the engagement of the cleat and pedal.

mix a little dishwashing detergent with water, spray pedal and bottom of shoe, test ride. This could help confirm Oxfords suggestion by eliminating the noise,if that is the problem.

[ColinOldnCranky]

It can also be that the crank is loose on the crankshaft. Sad to say that if that is the case and you have continued to ride, you will now have a stuffed crank that will never stay tight to the shaft. The crankshaft will be fine.

If this is the situation then it will fairly quickly start to show it's true nature by having some lateral movement of the crank. Tightening it will work but it will then loosen again, probably on every trip.

The good news is that, assuming you have ridden a fair few kms since and that it is not displaying that movement, then it will be something else, as others have suggested.

(Coincidentally I just got my new hub in parcel post half an houir ago. My crank shaft is fitted into the hub.)

[Robdog]

It can also be that the crank is loose on the crankshaft. Sad to say that if that is the case and you have continued to ride, you will now have a stuffed crank that will never stay tight to the shaft.

False. Within 100kms of getting my bike the NDS crankarm fell off (pinch bolts not tightened by bike shop ), being a hollowtechII crank I just affixed it a bit more securely and it still rides fine to this day without any damage to the spindle. They've come a long way since square taper, fortunately

[winstonw]

As others point out, could be any of bottom bracket, loose cranks or pedals, pedal cleat interface. I bought new Shimano 105 pedals a few months ago and the right one has creaked a couple of times as you describe. I thought it was coming from a loose or under-lubed pedal in the crank. Took me a while to realize it was the cleat on the pedal, and was happening after cleaning the shoes and cleats with soapy water. I sprayed a bit of WD40 on the pedal platform when troubleshooting, which stopped the noise. ANyway, if the cleat/pedal isn't causing it, then let the shop sort it out.

[ColinOldnCranky]

It can also be that the crank is loose on the crankshaft. Sad to say that if that is the case and you have continued to ride, you will now have a stuffed crank that will never stay tight to the shaft.

False. Within 100kms of getting my bike the NDS crankarm fell off (pinch bolts not tightened by bike shop ), being a hollowtechII crank I just affixed it a bit more securely and it still rides fine to this day without any damage to the spindle. They've come a long way since square taper, fortunately

No idea what a hollowtech is. But I have seen (and experienced) a few that have all behaved as I stated. However, and maybe this is significant, they were all basic square taper jobs. Perhaps also signficant, in the cases I've seen, perhaps (I'd have to reflect on this) they were ALL on unicycles, and on unicycles we tend to load the shaft in a continually rocking forward-back-forward-back-forward... direction. Whereas you guys load them only in a forward direction.

I am interested to hear from others if what I have observed is generally true (I would have said always true before your post) or is it just something that bites unicyclists.

[Mulger bill]

Colin, you're spot on about square tapers. I doubt it's exclusively a uni thing seeing as I've had it happen to me.

Hollowtech runs to a crapload of splines on an oversized spindle, no tapers at all to chew the hell out of the crank.

Shaun

[Robdog]

It can also be that the crank is loose on the crankshaft. Sad to say that if that is the case and you have continued to ride, you will now have a stuffed crank that will never stay tight to the shaft.

False. Within 100kms of getting my bike the NDS crankarm fell off (pinch bolts not tightened by bike shop ), being a hollowtechII crank I just affixed it a bit more securely and it still rides fine to this day without any damage to the spindle. They've come a long way since square taper, fortunately

No idea what a hollowtech is. But I have seen (and experienced) a few that have all behaved as I stated. However, and maybe this is significant, they were all basic square taper jobs. Perhaps also signficant, in the cases I've seen, perhaps (I'd have to reflect on this) they were ALL on unicycles, and on unicycles we tend to load the shaft in a continually rocking forward-back-forward-back-forward... direction. Whereas you guys load them only in a forward direction.

I am interested to hear from others if what I have observed is generally true (I would have said always true before your post) or is it just something that bites unicyclists.

Square taper doesn't exist on modern road bikes. The BB is just a couple of bearings, the spindle is attached to the Drive Side crankarm, and the NDS crank slides onto it. Infinitely better system IMO

[itsaghostcar]

Don't forget the chainring bolts. Took apart my bottom bracket and regreased the other day to find out the creaking I was hearing was due to a couple of bolts being loose

... bike was in need of a service anyway

[ausmomo]

Take it back to the shop you brought it from.

Thanks all.
I took it in for a service. They said it's all fixed now. The counter bloke said the mechanic had left for the day so at this stage I'm not 100% sure what it was.

[rkelsen]

Square taper doesn't exist on modern road bikes. The BB is just a couple of bearings, the spindle is attached to the Drive Side crankarm, and the NDS crank slides onto it. Infinitely better system IMO

Lighter, yes. Not necessarily better. At least with square taper there were only two sizes you had to worry about.

Modern BBs (especially racing ones) are a mess of proprietary designs and "non-standards." Hollowtech II, X-type, MegaExo, Ultra-torque, Giga-X-Pipe, BB30, BB90, BB86, BB92... Aaaaarrrrggghhh... Please make it stop!!

The current trend of "press fit" bearings is also stupid, IMO.

[Robdog]

Take it back to the shop you brought it from.

Thanks all.
I took it in for a service. They said it's all fixed now. The counter bloke said the mechanic had left for the day so at this stage I'm not 100% sure what it was.

They'd better not have charged you for it

Lighter, yes. Not necessarily better. At least with square taper there were only two sizes you had to worry about

I said better, not easier to remember all the proprietary systems. Bastards
All I hear about is square taper cranks coming loose and ruining a perfectly good crankset. At $700-1000 for a new top of the line crankset these days they would want to have come up with something a little more foolproof!

[ausmomo]

They'd better not have charged you for it

Nah. They're nice blokes. I'm happy with their sales/service so far. I'll know tomorrow morning if it's fixed, and what the problem was (when I call the mechanic).

[rkelsen]

All I hear about is square taper cranks coming loose and ruining a perfectly good crankset.

If you assemble them properly, there is no technical reason for a square taper crank to be any less reliable.

[ColinOldnCranky]

All I hear about is square taper cranks coming loose and ruining a perfectly good crankset.

If you assemble them properly, there is no technical reason for a square taper crank to be any less reliable.

A litle loose on the tightening with a square fitting can cause trouble whereas I reckon you'd almost have to deliberately fit a splined hub in order for it to loosen.

ANd I suppose that most/all splined hubs would have a separate hardened steel female fitted into the crank arm, meaning it should not deform if it does run loose for a while, whereas case-hardened one-piece ordinary cranks are not so inclined.

I would reckon that a fixie track bike with square hubs holding stalls to get position could cause similar problems to what I and other unicyclists occasionally experience with square taper.

[master6]

All I hear about is square taper cranks coming loose and ruining a perfectly good crankset.

If you assemble them properly, there is no technical reason for a square taper crank to be any less reliable.

A litle loose on the tightening with a square fitting can cause trouble whereas I reckon you'd almost have to deliberately fit a splined hub in order for it to loosen.

ANd I suppose that most/all splined hubs would have a separate hardened steel female fitted into the crank arm, meaning it should not deform if it does run loose for a while, whereas case-hardened one-piece ordinary cranks are not so inclined.

I would reckon that a fixie track bike with square hubs holding stalls to get position could cause similar problems to what I and other unicyclists occasionally experience with square taper.

I used square taper bottom bracket axles on road and track bikes from 1965 to 2006. Makes I used were TA, Stronglight, Sugino, and Shimano Dura ace. I never had a failure of any kind. A major contributing factor to my lack of problems was probably the fact that removal to clean and lube bearings was a regular event. Any wet weather meant immediated dismantling, or a rusty axle and balls. I can see that a crank fitted and forgotten over a long period might eventually come loose.

[rkelsen]

whereas I reckon you'd almost have to deliberately fit a splined hub in order for it to loosen.

Riding a significant distance with any type of crank incorrectly fitted will damage it.

I would reckon that a fixie track bike with square hubs holding stalls to get position could cause similar problems to what I and other unicyclists occasionally experience with square taper.

Then why are most of track cranksets currently available of the square taper kind? Surely if this were such an issue, they'd want to use something better?

[ghettro]

On a bike you do load the shaft in different directions as each left-right stroke goes around, try riding a bike with loose or worn cotterpins and you'll see.

[ColinOldnCranky]

Then why are most of track cranksets currently available of the square taper kind? Surely if this were such an issue, they'd want to use something better?

Simple really. When I was a serious competition squash player I never went to a pennant or a carnival without a once over of the strings and frame and shoes. You fit your cranks correctly and you check them every time you go to the track. (Why wouldn't you!) If competing, you service to a higher requirement than what you may otherwise do.

I am not a track racer but I also suspect that a lot of these track bikes are using lightweight cranks with hard steel inserts - inserts that are as hard as the square splines.

[ghettro]

There are a few track cranksets that use outboard cups, the SRAM/Truvativ ominum does. I'm not sure why there aren't more, maybe because the market is a lot smaller than the road market? Maybe it's because of Q-Factor? Although I don't see how it's any less of an issue on the road. Anyway back to the OP

Anyway, I've never seen any cranksets, track or road that have steel inserts where the square taper hole is. Cotterless (square taper) cranks are still by far the most popular crank-bb interface in the developed world because they work, are cheap and have good bearing life generally.

[ColinOldnCranky]

You know, these threads are good. I have learned a few things about other peoples equipment that I did not know.

And there really are so many variants and options these days.

[master6]

You know, these threads are good. I have learned a few things about other peoples equipment that I did not know.

And there really are so many variants and options these days.

Colin, do you have any unicycle maintenance photos? Are there similarities between uni cycle and penny farthing mechanicals?

[ColinOldnCranky]

Colin, do you have any unicycle maintenance photos? Are there similarities between uni cycle and penny farthing mechanicals?

Other than there being little in the way of bits requiring maintenance, I don't think there would be much in common between a penny farthing and a unicycle - perhaps the way the wheel and bearings are fitted.

Otherwise the seats for uni's are unique to unis, the pedals and cranks on unis are pretty much the same as on regular bikes, there is almost nothing in regulatory gear including lights, brakes. And the wheels and tyres on a pf are their own unique thing.

Maybe the sort of people who ride them is the main similarlity. The thought of riding a pf appeals to me and I suspect that a lot of other uni riders would feel the same.