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Tubeless Road Trial

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:16 pm
by toolonglegs
Well it is done.I am tubeless front and rear.
Front is on a Kysrium SL wheel (with no spoke holes in the rim)
Rear is on Dura-Ace wheel (with holes)
First time fitting on Saturday night was a messy disaster.Mainly because the rear rim which I started with had a enlarged hole due to previous owner being a bit rough.So the valve wouldn't seal and eventually it pulled into the rim as the hole was a touch too large to get a seal.So after 5 canisters,soapy water everywhere and a very sweaty me a gave up on that and decided to skip the DuraAce front wheel and take the easy option of a Ksyrium front wheel with no spoke holes to seal.Just a matter of installing the vavle...not too tight.Putting one side of the tyre on,soaping the bead up really well.Then installing 3/4 the other bead (I did all this while the wheel was in a mag trainer for obvious reason about to be explained).Then turned the wheel around so that the still to be fitted bead was at the top and then poured in the Stans No Tube sealant so that it flowed to the bottom of the tyre and didnt make too much of a mess.Then finished fitting the bead.Quite tight on these tyres but as there is no tube you can use a lever without fear of pinching.Then a bit more soapy water and inflated with a canister.Apparently you can do it with a pump but I couldn't manage.It sealed straight off and was set at 110psi.It was still at that pressure for my Sunday morning race.I was a bit cautious to start with but forgot about it once the race heated up.
Today I fitted the rear after bunging up the valve hole with silicon,letting it seal for 3 days and the drilling a small hole back thru the silicon.For the rims with spoke holes you take off old rim tape.Sand lightly with a bit of wet/dry.Clean with brake clean or alcohol.Then fit a special tape around the rim twice streaching it while fitting it.Put the valve in and then exactly the same as the front.It did hiss for a second from the valve but then seated nicely.
I manage a 10k ride,but that was all as I need some sleep but couldn't resist a try out.It felt great...seemed to roll very smoothly but at the same time I can run 20 psi less.Looking forward to Sundays race to give it a good test out.It is suppose to mean less rolling resistance,no punctures (obviously the main reason I have done it).But definately no weight saving as the tyre is 290 grams which plus the valve and 50ml of sealant probably equals 340 grams...race tyre and tube probably comes in at 220grams...but I will see how they go :D

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:13 am
by wayno
wow, what an amazing conversion to standard wheels. Is there gunk all inside your rim now and would it be hard to change tyres? I asusme you used a tubeless tyre, and is this the same process for a tubeless rim?

And all I did this week was to change to a compact crank!

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:27 pm
by toolonglegs
wayno wrote:wow, what an amazing conversion to standard wheels. Is there gunk all inside your rim now and would it be hard to change tyres? I asusme you used a tubeless tyre, and is this the same process for a tubeless rim?

And all I did this week was to change to a compact crank!


There is gunk inside my wheel...shouldn't be too messy when i come round to changing the tyre.One thing you have to do is double chck level on gunk in the wheel every month or so as having a puncture at 100 psi plus ejects quite a bit with out you realising even if it seals nearly instantly.
It is a Hutchison Tubeless tyre...they are the only one around at the moment.The rim is bulk standard...can be done to any road rim.

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:33 pm
by europa
Hmm, hope the colour of the gunk matches the back of your jersey :twisted:

Keep us posted on how it goes mate.

Richard

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:30 pm
by toolonglegs
Nah...i am to old for the white jersey :lol:

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:19 pm
by mikesbytes
I hear that with road tubeless, you run the pressure about 10psi lighter than you would with a tube.

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:33 pm
by toolonglegs
mikesbytes wrote:I hear that with road tubeless, you run the pressure about 10psi lighter than you would with a tube.


For my weight they recommend 110-125psi...thats 15 psi minimum less than I run normally.Another guy I know running them on tuesday at hefron in A/B is running them at 80-90 psi and still thinks that might be too hard...he weighs in at 70kgs.

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:36 pm
by sogood
toolonglegs wrote:For my weight they recommend 110-125psi...thats 15 psi minimum less than I run normally.Another guy I know running them on tuesday at hefron in A/B is running them at 80-90 psi and still thinks that might be too hard...he weighs in at 70kgs.

You normally run on 125-140psi on the road? No wonder you won the Black Cat award. :wink:

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:54 pm
by toolonglegs
sogood wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:For my weight they recommend 110-125psi...thats 15 psi minimum less than I run normally.Another guy I know running them on tuesday at hefron in A/B is running them at 80-90 psi and still thinks that might be too hard...he weighs in at 70kgs.

You normally run on 125-140psi on the road? No wonder you won the Black Cat award. :wink:

On my race bike I would run 140 rear and 130 front.

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:07 pm
by sogood
toolonglegs wrote:On my race bike I would run 140 rear and 130 front.

Wow! :shock:

No wonder your wheels are stressed. :roll:

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:22 pm
by toolonglegs
sogood wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:On my race bike I would run 140 rear and 130 front.

Wow! :shock:

No wonder your wheels are stressed. :roll:


Thats why I thought I would give tubeless a go....worth a try.

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:43 pm
by salieri
Is is still possible to use a spoke key, and how much of a drama would it be to change a broken spoke?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:31 pm
by toolonglegs
salieri wrote:Is is still possible to use a spoke key, and how much of a drama would it be to change a broken spoke?


Spoke key would be no problem.Changing a spoke would be a pain..but these are pretty tough race wheels.If I did have to change one on the DuraAce wheel i would have to take the tyre and tape and valve off and then redo tape.Seriously it took me 2 minutes to tape it...and less than 10 minutes all up.The only headache is getting the vavle to seal well.On the Kysrium which needs no tape it dosent take much longer than a normal tyre...apart from having to put in the liquid.

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:01 pm
by mikesbytes
salieri wrote:Is is still possible to use a spoke key, and how much of a drama would it be to change a broken spoke?


Usually you can change the spoke using the same nipple

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:26 pm
by toolonglegs
mikesbytes wrote:
salieri wrote:Is is still possible to use a spoke key, and how much of a drama would it be to change a broken spoke?


Usually you can change the spoke using the same nipple


Not on the DuraAce wheel ace spoke nipple is at the hub :roll:

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:01 pm
by toolonglegs
Well they lasted a race at Hefron..so if they can bump their way around there they can go anywhere :D

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:30 am
by mikesbytes
How do you fix a flat?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:24 am
by Caelum
mikesbytes wrote:How do you fix a flat?




shhhh!

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:11 am
by toolonglegs
mikesbytes wrote:How do you fix a flat?


Unless it is a really big hole then it is self healing :lol:

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:48 am
by toolonglegs
Really noticed the difference today...seemed to be on the brakes going into corners alot more to stop running up peoples rear ends :lol: ...i usually have that problem with my weight anyway but today it was definately a lot more... mut be my super low rolling resistance :lol: ...certainly wasnt my fitness as I suffered in the heat,plus backing up from a really hard race 12 hours before didn't help....glad to get a placing!.

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:18 am
by mikesbytes
The cornering improvement could also be attributed to the lower tyre pressures. No doubt there is an improvement in rolling resistance as you don't have a tube rubbing against the tyre any more.

Congratulations on the placing.

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:43 pm
by ggundersen
And where did you buy the kit?

I would like to try them on my shiny red Mavic (can't remember what I was told to call them) Ksyrium wheels.

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:48 pm
by toolonglegs
mikesbytes wrote:The cornering improvement could also be attributed to the lower tyre pressures. No doubt there is an improvement in rolling resistance as you don't have a tube rubbing against the tyre any more.

Congratulations on the placing.


I was still running 120psi front and rear...but they where definately rolling better...maybee thats why no one could catch me when I bridge across to the break :D

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:50 pm
by toolonglegs
ggundersen wrote:And where did you buy the kit?

I would like to try them on my shiny red Mavic (can't remember what I was told to call them) Ksyrium wheels.


All you need is a Stans Tubless Valve (better than the others apparently).Hutchison tubeless tyre and a bottle of stans no tubes.Simple as that...took me 5 minutes to fit onto my front kysrium,or thou there is a way to do it that makes it easy.

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:05 pm
by mikesbytes
toolonglegs wrote:maybee thats why no one could catch me when I bridge across to the break :D


Must of been those extra K's to West Head last Saturday week