Cassette turns freely in both directions

[JFJ]

Hi all, I was riding up a hill yesterday and all of a sudden the cassette just seemed to lose all grip on the rear wheel and just spins freely..

I have an old second hand Apollo MTB. It appears to be a freewheel shimano Hub (from all the reading I am doing).

Does it just sound like a loose lock ring or will it be worse? There doesn't seem to be any lateral movement in the cassette so I am a bit worried that there is some kind of internal problem??

I appreciate you thoughts and advice!

[il padrone]

Is it a freewheel, or a Shimano freehub??





I ask that as almost all Shimano gears used freehubs since the early 80s. A freehub will have a telltale bulge on the rhs of the hub shell, or if more recent, a larger diameter hub shell.

Your problem may be a number of things, but one simple cause may be someone servicing the cassette/freewheel using grease, which can cause the pawls to stick and fail to catch on the internal ratchet. Easy fix (for a freewheel) is to rinse with kero and re-lube with chain lube, a little trickier with a freehub.

[JFJ]

On second thought maybe it is indeed a shimano free hub

I just unscrewed most of it (with the exception of the cassette as I dont have a tool for that) and it appears that the bearings on the cassette side arent actually all the way around the inside. On the non drive side they form a nice circle around the axle but on the drive side the bottom has bearings side by side and none on the top of the cavity.. if that makes sense?

Logic tells me to get a tool to unscrew the cassette, reset the bearings in their rightful place then re tighten... Does that sound close to a solution?

[il padrone]

If it is a cassette and freehub it is set out like this




If you've pulled the cone off you are looking at the first row of bearings (in green), the hub bearings. There should be a full ring around the cup, with at most one ball gap. Sounds like someone has pulled it apart and rebuilt it with less than the requisite number of ball bearings.

This is not the solution to your freewheeling problem however .

[JFJ]

Wouldnt surprise me.. I knew I should have checked the bike out a little more thoroughly before buying! But hey it was only cheap..

Well maybe the next step for now is that I will get the tool to remove the cassette and have a look at what is going on inside...At least this way I can report back with some photos if I am still stumped..

I know this is really a job for my LBS, but if I do that I won't learn anything which I would much prefer to do..

[human909]

Wouldnt surprise me.. I knew I should have checked the bike out a little more thoroughly before buying! But hey it was only cheap..

Well maybe the next step for now is that I will get the tool to remove the cassette and have a look at what is going on inside...At least this way I can report back with some photos if I am still stumped..

I know this is really a job for my LBS, but if I do that I won't learn anything which I would much prefer to do..

You really DON'T want to be taking apart freewheels and freehubs. The better way is to bath them in kero or degreaser first and see how it goes. If that doesn't work the the best option is to buy a new one! They can be have for around $25 for a freewheel or $70 for a whole new wheel if it is the freehub.

[il padrone]

You really DON'T want to be taking apart freewheels and freehubs.

+1

I've been messing about with bikes for over 35 years and only once have I pulled down a freewheel. Never put it back together, just too many tiny bearings to be bothered getting back into place and pawls to hold in (it was an old worn cluster).

Freehubs would be even worse - I've never pulled the freewheel section apart.

[JFJ]

So it turns out that it was actually a freewheel ... learning more every day!

Good advice re- kero.. I ended up just bathing it in kero and now when freewheeling backwards I get the nice clicking sound, so I am guessing the spring inside was gunked up.

I can still hear some grit in the mechanism, so I am still tempted to open it up but now I need to take back the freehub unlocking tool and get the freewheel tool...

[il padrone]

I can still hear some grit in the mechanism, so I am still tempted to open it up but now I need to take back the freehub unlocking tool and get the freewheel tool...

Noo!! You'll totally f#%& it up....... Oh, that's OK, I see. Have you taken the freewheel off the hub?

Just more rinsing with kero. With the freewheel off the hub, dunk the whole thing in an ice cream container of kero and spin it. Let it dry out, then get the chain lube into it.

[JFJ]

Will do.. i use the term 'bathing' quite loosely... but I am keen to get some lubrication back in there..

I have some machine oil.. will that be OK? Also have some of the wax chain lube..

[JFJ]

Oh, and havent got it off there yet.. I bought the wrong tool.. Its just a little too big, so will return to the store

[human909]

Taking apart freewheels/freehubs is more headache than its worth and there is a VERY good chance that you'll screw it up and it will be unrecoverable.

They cost $25. http://www.this link is broken/Shimano-MF- ... -Freewheel

[Mulger bill]

Methinks a light machine oil would be more suited than a wax lube.

I really should pull that old cluster apart just to see...

[il padrone]

Light machine oil is fine. Also regular chain lubes, like Triflow, Finish Line Cross-country. Keep the wax-lubes well away.


And, yes, to clean out the freewheel, dunk it completely into the kero, but do this with it off the hub.

[JFJ]

Hi all,

Sorry to drop off the radar.. went on a holiday.

So now I have the correct tool I took off the freewheel from the hub and after a lot of investigation have worked out that the thread on the hub is totally gone.. With the kero and the clean out of the cassette it seems to be totally fine and running better than ever..

I am thinking that considering this is a low-low-low budget exercise that I might just buy a new wheel with freewheel attachment..

Input and throughts otherwise always welcome.

And thanks for getting me to this point!!

[HappyHumber]

Hehe.. I came into this thread too late.

I actually had a freewheel strip the thread off a hub once - heading out of an exit ramp from basement carpark. I guess the wear though was a gradual torque thing. This was in the days before I started doing a lot more of my own bike maintenance and when I took the bike into my LBS, I distinctly remember them being quite surprised at what had happened..

I had owned the bike since new - a lower to mid range 1990s rigid framed Raliegh MTB. I'd moved to the city and done quite a number of Ks on it by this point with my new commuting regimen. I had started wearing out a lot of things on it and was beginning to develop an appreciation for the finer differences in quality & construction in bikes.

[JFJ]

Similar circumstance... I began to heavey pedal on a small hill and boom.. all of a sudden, gone! Late 80s or 90s model Apollo MTB

Hub looks cheap and the cassette threads look fine! Just a few shredded bits of hub thread inside it!...

Do I just try to buy a new hub, or should I get a whole new wheel? A bit scary the thought of undoing spokes etc...

[JFJ]

LBS says cheapest and easiest is a new rear wheel.. easy!

[HappyHumber]

Yeah, pretty sure that's what my LBS did at the time; but this was about 10 years ago. But I'd imagine a generic thread on hubbed 26" wheel are still a pretty stock item.

You still referring to the freewheel as a cassette keeps doing my nut though each time I read the subject header

[JFJ]

I have learned a lot about the anatomy of the bike since that first post!

[JFJ]

OK, so just to close this down.. The new tyre came in, I screwed it all on, reattached the wheel and now all is good (except the puncture to my new tube after 5 minutes of riding)

Thanks everyone for your help - and I hope this thread might be of use to someone with the same problem as me in the future.

I know when it comes to new chain etc that I will probably either sell this POS and move on or convert to a freehub system (buy another tyre!).. It just makes more sense