Individual Sprockets

NewStew
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:26 pm

Individual Sprockets

Postby NewStew » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:40 pm

I have recently changed my Ultegra cassette from an 12-25 to a 11-28 (would have bought a 12-27 if they had been available in Ultegra) so that I can have a little easier time dragging my fat backside up hills (and it is much better). Interestingly the only difference bewteen the two cassettes in the bottom end (lower than the 21T) is that the 16T has been removed from the 11-28 and the 11T added. I was wondering if I could remove the 11T (which I rarely need) and move everything along making room to put a 16T back in and essentially make a 12-28?

Also, can you buy individual sprockets as I have looked in all the usual suspects and cant find them?

rustychisel
Posts: 3491
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:39 pm

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby rustychisel » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:42 pm

you should be okay to mix n match. In Shimano the biggest 3 cogs are riveted together, the rest are loose (with appropriate spacers). Allegedly if you mix n match you may compromise shifting smoothness due to the way the cogs are aligned and machined (have a look at the varying profiles of individual teeth on a complete cassette as installed and note the curvature of the shifting path from one cog to the next). Generally, say in swapping a 16T in place of a 17T or whatever I imagine there wouldn't be too much of an issue.

I know of nowhere that sells individual cogs largely because Shimano's OEM service doesn't want it that way (and it would be a nightmare keeping track of them all, what is new, lightly used, completely worn out etc.... and there'e $$ in selling complete cassettes. Some specialist suppliers make and sell individual cogs, Marchisio spring to mind, but it's probably not worth the nickel unless you definitely positively have to have that 27T for the world's greatest touring bike. As it is 90% of all cyclists couldn't tell you what gear they're in most of the time anyway (which is another reason fixed gear riders are superior in every way since they can without even a glance tell you they're riding a 48 x 16 or a 42 x 15).

One day (when the earth is ruled by good fairies and all disease and poverty has been banished) I'm going to inventory all my cassettes, try and work out which cogs are the worn ones, and see if I can do what you propose, ie put together full working cassettes from those I have lurking around the bike room. Of course I fully expect to find I have 5 cassettes with completely worn 17T cogs, but then I'll know.

User avatar
spirito
Posts: 1393
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby spirito » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:57 pm

NewStew wrote:

Also, can you buy individual sprockets as I have looked in all the usual suspects and cant find them?


Abbotsford Cycles in Oz (call them), Harris Cyclery in the US. http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html

You may have to buy a new first position cog and lockring to suit if you don't have one and the current one isn't suitable. It's not as hard as people will tell you ... Just got to know where to look and also study the tech docs from Shimano to see what variables and possibilities there are.
Cranky Jim wrote: God did not invent gears. Men invented gears ... because we are not gods.

User avatar
MichaelB
Posts: 9016
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby MichaelB » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:14 pm

spirito wrote: You may have to buy a new first position cog and lockring to suit if you don't have one and the current one isn't suitable. It's not as hard as people will tell you ... Just got to know where to look and also study the tech docs from Shimano to see what variables and possibilities there are.


I think the Shimano 12 & 11T sprockets are all capable of being 1st possie.

The other option is to make a 12-28, but taking the 12-25 and swapping in the 3 new rivetted cassettes (the 21-23-25 taken out and the 21-24-27) to get the low end. This all depends on what the condition of the existing cassette is like.

glennb
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby glennb » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:00 pm

A loose cassette isn't the end of the world, but I'd still stick with a 1st position cog with radiating ratcheting grooves i.e. find yourself a new 12t

If the 16t ramps are the same as those of one of the cogs either side of it then downshifts will suck balls, having to wait a full revolution of the cassette for the chain to climb.

NewStew
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:26 pm

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby NewStew » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:00 am

MichaelB wrote:
spirito wrote: You may have to buy a new first position cog and lockring to suit if you don't have one and the current one isn't suitable. It's not as hard as people will tell you ... Just got to know where to look and also study the tech docs from Shimano to see what variables and possibilities there are.


I think the Shimano 12 & 11T sprockets are all capable of being 1st possie.

The other option is to make a 12-28, but taking the 12-25 and swapping in the 3 new rivetted cassettes (the 21-23-25 taken out and the 21-24-27) to get the low end. This all depends on what the condition of the existing cassette is like.


Didnt think of that - might be worth considering. The 12-25 has done about 5,000km and I think is in pretty good condition. The chain that came off with it was only stretched by about 1/4 of a link (I am considering a link to be one set of plates inside and one outside, i.e. one inch long) over the full length of the chain. Dont know what that was in total percentage as I didnt measure the full length of the chain.

I rode the bike for the first time in anger today after changing the cassette and while it may have been in my head I seemed to notice three big jumps when changing - first one was obviously the 24T to the 28T, the second was the 12T to the 11T and the third seemed to be somewhere in the middle. As mentioned before only the fixie riders tend to know exactly what cog they are in (unless it is top or bottom) but it was probably around my missing 16T.

Anyone else got any thoughts on this idea as it is probably much easier, and I have the existing lockring with the 12-25 to use with the 12T inner sproket.

glennb
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby glennb » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:15 am

The procedure's reversible, if you don't like the result just put the cassettes back as they were.

User avatar
jacks1071
Posts: 3066
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:47 pm
Location: Mackay, QLD
Contact:

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby jacks1071 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:01 pm

Miche used to sell a sprocket board - I think Hill Brick maybe able to supply them and you could buy all the individual gears to make up your own cassette.

I can't really see the point in it but if you wanted to get very particular ratios then I guess why not?
Our Website is: http://www.kotavelo.com.au Find us on Facebook by searching for "Kotavelo"

NewStew
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:26 pm

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby NewStew » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:23 pm

Well I tried it and it didnt work. Well didnt work is harsh because it did work but the ramps etc must have been in the wrong place because shifting up between the 19T (from the old cluster) to the 21T (new cluster) was a poor change. Sometimes it would jump straight across but other times it would take a half revolution or so before it would engage the new ratio. After having nice crip changes that just sucks as I often move around those ratios.

Experiment over, damn you Shimano for not making an Ultegra 12-27. If missing the 16T really gets me I will either have to put on a 105 or DA 12-27 and be done with it.

Thanks for everyones input.

glennb
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby glennb » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:18 pm

Well it was never going to improve shifting :P but no harm trying.

Shimano aren't stupid, if they offered HG-30/40/50 cassettes in more useful ranges they'd cannibalise high-margin Dura-Ace and Ultegra sales.

However, for 9sp you might find a cheap 12-28 "MTB" cassette, Shimano or otherwise.

Nobody
Posts: 8808
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:06 pm

rustychisel wrote:As it is 90% of all cyclists couldn't tell you what gear they're in most of the time anyway...
Because it doesn't matter. They have plenty of them to choose from.
rustychisel wrote:...(which is another reason fixed gear riders are superior in every way...)
[Must be a quiet night on here, so OK RC, I'll bite. :D ]
Superior at what?
Clubbing their pedals on the ground in corners? :lol:
Getting left behind in the hills because they didn't bring the right gears for the job? :P
Running no front brake because skidding your rear tyre is a good enough way to stop? :roll:
Colour matching their frame, parts and wheels with their clothes?

C'mon RC. Freewheels and multi-gears were invented about a century ago for good reasons. If you want to ride a track bike, I'm sure there are plenty of tracks to ride them on. :P

User avatar
il padrone
Posts: 22931
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby il padrone » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:15 pm

Nobody wrote:Freewheels and multi-gears were invented about a century ago for good reasons. If you want to ride a track bike, I'm sure there are plenty of tracks to ride them on. :P

Freewheels were invented about a hundred years ago, yes. But if you wanted multi-speed chain gears you had to wait a lot longer. "We can sell you a two or three-speed hub though." :|


Somewhere in Australia in the 1930s
Image
Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."

Nobody
Posts: 8808
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Individual Sprockets

Postby Nobody » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:24 pm

il padrone wrote:Freewheels were invented about a hundred years ago, yes. But if you wanted multi-speed chain gears you had to wait a lot longer. "We can sell you a two or three-speed hub though." :|

Thanks, but hub gears are "multi-gears". I didn't mention derailleurs.
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/about/company

I thought I'd be flamed by someone by now. RC and all the fixie dudes must be elsewhere or have "superior" self control. :wink:

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: am50em