Brooks rail length problem

[Nobody]

Rail length of original B17. ~14cm from front of rails to back of saddle. Good fit.


Rail length of new Team Pro. ~13cm from front of rails to back of saddle. 1cm too far forward. Confirmed by other measurements on bike.


As most of you already know, the usual problem with Brooks saddles is not being able to get the saddle back far enough due to short rails. I made the incorrect assumption that different saddles would have at least the same reference point to the rear of the saddle so you can just swap them, but I was obviously wrong.

Could someone with a Swift or Swallow please measure the front of the rail to back of saddle (like photos) and post it? I'm trying to figure out if I have any other Brooks options before looking elsewhere. I've already got a 30mm setback post and most frames of similar size to mine have a similar seat tube angles. Looks like I'm going to have to sell the Team Pro either way.

Thanks in advance.

[il padrone]

Back end of the Swift to the front of the rail measures 140mm on mine.

[Nobody]

Thanks Pete. Should have got the Swift then. Kicking myself now.

I think there is too little information on the Brooks site about measurements considering the limited amount of rail adjustment.

[bprb]

I reckon my Swallow is closer to 15 cm. Hope that helps.

Edit: On second thought, I'll say 14 cm. Looking vertically at the desk it appeared 15 cm, but that wasn't perpendicular to the ruler (the rails aren't horizontal when the saddle is on the desk). When I look perpendicular to the ruler, I now think it's 14 cm.

[il padrone]

Yep, the Swallow has notably longer rails. But at a notably higher price

[edit] Then again maybe not longer. It seems the Swallow just has a deceptively different bend in the front of the rail.

[Nobody]

Thanks Bprb and Pete.

At least it looks like I have other options.

I'll give it one or two more shorter rides to see if I can get it to work, but I'd say it's very likely to be up for sale in a week or two if my knees complain.

[ray]

Thanks Bprb and Pete.

At least it looks like I have other options.

I'll give it one or two more shorter rides to see if I can get it to work, but I'd say it's very likely to be up for sale in a week or two if my knees complain.

There isn't too many options for seatposts with a setback greater than 30mm. If you still want to use the Brooks there are some 40mm+ setback options such as the Ambrosio Momentum Carbon (27.2 x 300/350 with 45mm setback) and the Nitto S-84 Steel (with 42mm setback - some quote 37mm). For me with small frame, short legs and steep seat tube angle need around 40mm setback.

[Nobody]

There isn't too many options for seatposts with a setback greater than 30mm. If you still want to use the Brooks there are some 40mm+ setback options such as the Ambrosio Momentum Carbon (27.2 x 300/350 with 45mm setback) and the Nitto S-84 Steel (with 42mm setback - some quote 37mm). For me with small frame, short legs and steep seat tube angle need around 40mm setback.

Thanks Ray.

Very informative and good to know there are extra options. The problem is the Nitto S-84 is $119 which is more expensive than what I paid for the saddle. The Ambrosio is even more expensive. I suppose it is much cheaper than a custom frame though.

I worked out that with a 70cm saddle height (BB to saddle top) the difference between a 73 degree seat tube and and a 74.5 degree is 17.5mm. I also have 165mm cranks which also encourages me to want to go back 5mm further. So I'm trying to get at least 22.5mm further back than average.

I'll see how the ride goes today.

[Nobody]

I bought the Nitto S-84 seatpost. Fitted it to find that the saddle setback with my configuration is exactly the same as the VO post. Why? Because the Nitto being a quality product has a long clamp and the VO has a short one (as viewed from the side). So the leading edge of each clamp is the same distance from the post centre. $135 for no fit result is disappointing. In hind sight, I should have sold the Pro and tried a Swallow or Swift. Oh well, at least I can warn people about it. The Nitto seatpost is a pretty item as retro bling. I don't know if I want to keep it yet so I've re-boxed it without using it to see if I want to sell it next year when people have money again. If I can't live with the position, I may sell the Pro too once I've broken it in a bit more. Oh well, another learning experience...

At least they look pretty together...

[Nobody]

Interesting post from Tony Colegrave in the thread below. Looks like the Swallow (as suggested above) does have the ability to be set back 1cm more than other saddles.
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 72667.html

[Nobody]

I've decided to ditch the Surly CC in favor of another frame with a 73.5 degree STA instead of 74.5. This should give me about ~1.2cm more saddle setback at the top of the saddle (BB to saddle height 70cm).

For anyone else that may be looking for similar smaller frames with a slacker STA, look for steel touring bikes and old style steel road bikes. After looking around I found some examples:
http://www.fujibikes.com/bike/details/touring5
http://www.jamisbikes.com/canada/thebik ... elite.html
http://www.jamisbikes.com/canada/thebik ... rt_rd.html
http://www.somafab.com/archives/product ... n-frameset

I think I'm going to buy a Planet-X frame because it's cheap and has 73.5 degree STA for a 545mm ETT. The ETT will be shorter by 8.5mm due the difference in STA, so it will be like a 532.5mm ETT at 74.5 degrees.
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FRPXKV2/pla ... _out_frame

[Rich-Ti]

That's a lovely seatpost! Perfect match with the Brooks.

[MichaelB]

So, that's a bugger, especially since it's such a nice seatpost.

Good way to get a new frame "But the seat doesn't go back far enough dear ......"

So, the options for me are a New Brooks Swallow (AT) $159 for the Chriome rail version or $300 for the Ti version (ooooohhhhh the WW in me is seeing value in 200g less ..... ) or try and find a new seatpost with more setback.

But the important Q is - how different is the profile of the Swallow compared to the Team Pro ?

Anyone with experience using the Swallow & Team Pro ?

[Mulger bill]

Swallow Ti is a lovely bit of kit Michael.
I haven't used a Pro so it's grain of salt time but going on googled pics of one, the Swallow is almost dead flat along the top, effectively zero sag on mine, even after I dunno how many kms (bum bone dimples aside). I haven't touched the tension. It looks from above to be narrower through the mid section too, the folded and riveted flaps stop it splaying out. I can't find a decent pic of Pro rails from the underside to make an honest comparison but the Swallow doesn't give a huge amount of room either.

Hope there's some nugget of assistance in all this waffle.

Shaun

[MichaelB]

Cheers MB, I think though that if i go down that path, a seatpost with more setback might be the better (& cheaper) option.

Ooorooo