Shimano Dual Control levers

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Shimano Dual Control levers

Postby Hotdog » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:11 am

Over the last couple of days I've been refitting my recumbent with a bunch of new components, the biggest change being replacing my SRAM twist grip shifers and Tektro levers with a set of XT dual control levers. Installation and setup was pretty straightforward, and I took my first ride with them today. I've got to say, these things are a revelation :D I thought it might take time to get used to the shifting technique (I've not used integrated shifters before) but the learning curve is pretty much non existant. Compared to the stiff SRAM X.7 twisties shifting is effortless, especially shifting down under braking.

I know Graeme has these on his 'bent, and that's what inspired me to give them a go too, but how many of the forum MTBers have used/use dual control levers?
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by BNA » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:41 am

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Postby Birdman » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:41 am

I read the link you posted but couldn't make any sort of sense from it. So it is 1 shifting lever and you move it how to make it go up/down.

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Postby Hotdog » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:01 pm

It's an integrated brake/shift lever, essentially a MTB compatible equivalent of road bike integrated levers. To apply the brakes you pull the lever towards the bars, to change to a higher gear you push the lever downwards and to change to a lower gear you pull the lever upwards. It might sound a bit awkward how I describe it, but in practice it's easy.

When mounted on the 'tweener' handlebars on my recumbent the shifting action is towards/away from the centreline of the bike rather than downwards/upwards, so even more like road bike shifters.
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Postby Bnej » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:38 pm

I've tried them on an MTB and wasn't a fan. Pushing them down was okay, pushing them up was a pain in the backside. I know people like them and do get used to them, but IMO for ergonomics the SRAM X.7/X.9/X.0 thumb trigger design is better. I can press things with my thumbs much easier than I can push a lever backwards with my hand.
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Postby Hawkeye » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:04 pm

I have LX integrated brake/shifters on my Jekyll.

For shifting to an easier gear there is an optional thumb lever attached to the brake lever. IMO it's better than the SRAM on the downshift because only light pressure is required to downshift, making braking at the same time easy to manage. This is with a low-normal rear derailleur.

On the SRAM setup on my commuter you're pushing against the RD spring, and I find the effort quite disruptive to smooth braking. In fact, with SRAM I can't downshift under hard braking. On the few occasions I've tried it I've nearly gone over the bars. I've simply had to let the idea downshifting go when I'm hard on the brakes. :x If SRAM had a low-normal RD then of course it would be different.

Until then, though, my preference is strongly for the Shimano integrated shifter/low normal RD combo.
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Postby Whitz End » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:59 pm

I was almost set on purchasing the Shimano LX versions but turned away after a burl around the car park on them. I felt that on long decents etc, it would be fairly easy while your riding the brake to mishift. That said, I havent actually used them off road so I wouldnt know...that was just how I felt. Have you had any issues like that off the beaten track? I guess it would be somewhat different on a recumbreant...
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Postby Hotdog » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:23 pm

I can imagine it being just about possible to accidentally upshift if you hit a bump awkardly while braking, but I reckon it'd be pretty unlikely. I've got no experience of using them on the rough stuff to back up that guess though.

It's all very different for the recumbent, as you correctly guessed. For a start, despite using a mix of MTB and road bike parts it's really a bike for on road use so I won't be operating these levers while being bumped around all that much. Also the ends of my handlebars aren't horizontal at right angles to the frame like a MTB, they're parallel to the frame and angled downward at about 45 degree to the vertical. This makes the ergonomics of the levers rather different, but they still work well.
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Postby Whitz End » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:34 pm

Humm...
Fair point. I have heard that they best work with a 'Rapid Rise' derailleur? That true?
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Postby Hotdog » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:46 pm

Whitz End wrote:Humm...
Fair point. I have heard that they best work with a 'Rapid Rise' derailleur? That true?


I did get a rapid rise derailleur to go with them, as I can see the reasoning behind matching them up that way. With the rapid rise rear derailleur both levers shift in the same sense, i.e. lever down to shift to higher gear (bigger chainring/smaller cog) and lever up to shift to a lower gear (smaller chainring/bigger cog). Perhaps more importantly, with a rapid rise rear derailleur the spring tension is towards lower gears, which means that downshifting requires less force than upshifting, which makes downshifting while braking easier.
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Postby Whitz End » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:23 pm

Makes sence. Are you using the hydraulic disc version or have you tied them into V-brakes?
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Postby europa » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:32 pm

I'm pretty sure the lucky sod's got disc brakes :wink:

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Postby Kalgrm » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:35 pm

Angus, he's running cable discs on a recumbent.

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Postby Whitz End » Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:06 am

Must be one hell of a recumbent! I assume its the one in your avatar!
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Postby Hawkeye » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:08 am

Whitz End wrote:I was almost set on purchasing the Shimano LX versions but turned away after a burl around the car park on them. I felt that on long decents etc, it would be fairly easy while your riding the brake to mishift. That said, I havent actually used them off road so I wouldnt know...that was just how I felt. Have you had any issues like that off the beaten track?


Occasionally I've mis-shifted with the dual-control. It does take some adjustment time to train your brain to use them, but on balance I'd say I now mis-shift less often than with the triggers.

The problem with the triggers and separate brakes I've found is that with 31.8mm bars there's not a lot of room to space everything exactly as you'd like to suit your hands. Consequently on the rough stuff it's real easy to accidentally brush the upshift trigger on the RD or hit it one or two more times more than I intended as the bars jump around, and viola I've just found the wrong gear.

Don't have this issue with dual-control. Mind you, I'm a bit lame as an off-road rider. :roll:
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Postby Hawkeye » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:11 am

Hotdog wrote:I did get a rapid rise derailleur to go with them, as I can see the reasoning behind matching them up that way. With the rapid rise rear derailleur both levers shift in the same sense, i.e. lever down to shift to higher gear (bigger chainring/smaller cog) and lever up to shift to a lower gear (smaller chainring/bigger cog). Perhaps more importantly, with a rapid rise rear derailleur the spring tension is towards lower gears, which means that downshifting requires less force than upshifting, which makes downshifting while braking easier.

+1. This is what I meant by low-normal DR. Low-normal = rapid rise. Or did I get my terminology confused? :oops:
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Postby singletracking » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:10 am

Dual control is great! I ride XTR on my dually.

It allows you to access all the controls with two fingers without needing to shift hand position or move your thumb from gripping the bars.

I've never accidentally shifted when braking.

The only downfall is that I have to wear a full-finger glove with some protection/padding on the top of my index finger. This is because I find that my fingers are not sufficiently padded enough to be able to apply upward pressure on the levers without them feeling painful and tender in a very short period of time.

But, I have a few sets of gloves that work and I would ride MTB in full-finger gloves anyway, so the issue has an easy solution.

I have thought about making a high-density foam/ neoprene 'ring' that would act as finger protection, but haven't actually made on yet to test out.
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Postby europa » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:53 am

Would you be able to use these levers on a bent with USS?

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Postby Kalgrm » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:57 pm

I reckon you could Richard, although I don't know how they would handle the water inflow when you ride in the rain. A squirt of WD40 every now and then would solve the problem.

You would also lose sight of the gear indicators, but that's no big deal.

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Postby Whitz End » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:01 pm

I dont even use gear indicators...If your looking down, your not riding fast enough! Hahah!
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Postby Mulger bill » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:42 pm

europa wrote:I'm pretty sure the lucky sod's got disc brakes :wink:

Richard
I've got crappy Tektro V brakes on mine :(


Maybe we should talk...

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Postby europa » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:48 am

Mulger bill wrote:
europa wrote:I'm pretty sure the lucky sod's got disc brakes :wink:

Richard
I've got crappy Tektro V brakes on mine :(


Maybe we should talk...

Shaun


Can't fit discs to the bent because the frame doesn't have the mounting points ... unless those adaptors you see on flebay actually work.

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Postby Mulger bill » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:02 pm

Haven't seen one for the front, but Specialized once released an FSR duallie with the rear caliper bolted onto one of them... :o

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Postby Hotdog » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:36 pm

A few piccies, just to prove they're real :wink:

Rider's eye view:

Image

A better view of the levers:

Image

Front view:

Image

More pics here.
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Postby Kalgrm » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:48 pm

Sweet! Glad to see you got them sorted. That looks fantastic in black.

I found mine a little easier to use if they flared out somewhat, so that instead of being near vertical in the bottom shot, they point to the bottom corners of the photo. That improves the change up for me.

Cheers, and once again congrats.
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Postby Kalgrm » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:52 pm

PS - how's that pump attached and what's the black thing on the boom? I like where the pump is on your's and want to copy it (mine's is under the seat at the moment)

Edit: cancel that. Looked at the photos on Flickr and worked it out.

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