chain trouble yet again,

Workshop tales, trials and disasters.
Maintenance tips, techniques and myths.
Technical discussion, description and outright lies

chain trouble yet again,

Postby adrian_d » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:08 pm

hey all,
Well I got my right hand shifter working great now, but i've only got one issue now. I followed Shimanos directions with regards to choosing the chain length and on the largest/largest gears, the chain is binding and the rear deraileur is over extended.

I will have to get another chain (i still have the links that were taken out) unless I could somehow join this chain up again. I used the link joiner that came with the chain (the one that was actually pushed in slightly on one end) and I still have my shimano master link if required.

I was going to try join up an old chain to see if I can get the right dimensions but its expensive to have to buy another chain each time I do it too short :(

I did notice as well when running small small combination, the chain touches the big chain ring gear, not quite sure why this might be the case.

Thanks all :)
REVISED GOALS FOR THIS/NEXT YEAR
2. Attend 250km Bupa 2014

My Cycling Journey Blog (Needs Updating)
User avatar
adrian_d
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:14 am

by BNA » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:05 pm

BNA
 

Re: chain trouble yet again,

Postby mitzikatzi » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:05 pm

Yes you can re add links to the chain. Just use another "shimano pin". Do not join the chain on the other/old shimano joining pin. Removing them can damage your chain.
Xplora wrote: Do not get cheap SPDs, your body will hurt you.

trailgumby wrote:29ers are awesome.
User avatar
mitzikatzi
 
Posts: 1696
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:21 am
Location: Perth

Re: chain trouble yet again,

Postby JustJames » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:11 pm

Although should have a chain that can deal with the big/big combination, this is really just insurance in case you have a brain fart and acshly try and use this combination.

Best advice is to not use a gear or two at each extreme of cross-chaining, IYSWIM.
My bike blog. Long on rumination, rambling and opinion. Why let facts ruin everything?

http://pedallingcharm.wordpress.com/
User avatar
JustJames
 
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:50 am

Re: chain trouble yet again,

Postby rifraf » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:15 pm

JustJames wrote:Best advice is to not use a gear or two at each extreme of cross-chaining, IYSWIM.

+1 :D

mitzikatzi wrote:Yes you can re add links to the chain. Just use another "shimano pin". Do not join the chain on the other/old shimano joining pin. Removing them can damage your chain.

+1 :D
Last edited by rifraf on Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2516
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: chain trouble yet again,

Postby rifraf » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:19 pm

adrian_d wrote:hey all,
i've only got one issue now. I followed Shimanos directions with regards to choosing the chain length and on the largest/largest gears, the chain is binding and the rear deraileur is over extended.


Hi Adrian
How closely did you follow the instructions?

Check out:
http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html
Pay special attention to what he says about correct chain length about a third of the way down the article.
Sheldons site is a really good one to learn about your bike and maintaining it correctly IMHO.
Good luck and let us know how you get on. :)

Or the park site courtisy of Baalzamon in another thread

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... gth-sizing

Chain Sizing - Largest Cog and Largest Chainring Method

An alternative method for determining chain length for new chains is to use the largest size sprockets on the bike. It is easiest to size the chain without threading it through the derailleur.

Remove the old chain.
Shift the front derailleur over the largest chainring, and the rear derailleur on the smallest cog.
Thread the new chain through the front derailleur. It is not necessary to thread the chain through the rear derailleur at this point. Simply wrap the chain around the largest front chainring and around the largest rear cog.
Pull the chain tight, and note the closest rivet where the two could be joined. Keep in mind a chain can only be joined by mating inner and outer plates.
From the closet rivet, lengthen the chain by counting over an additional two rivets (two links), which is a distance of one-inch. Cut the chain at this point.
Remove the chain from the bike and thread it through both derailleurs and join the ends.

MASTERLINK NOTE: If the bike chain uses a "master link", it is necessary to account for the link. Install one-half of the master link on one side of the chain. Size the chain by cutting the other end of the chain.
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2516
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: chain trouble yet again,

Postby rifraf » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:20 pm

adrian_d wrote:
I did notice as well when running small small combination, the chain touches the big chain ring gear, not quite sure why this might be the case.

Thanks all :)

Most derailers have an angle adjustment screw (Shimano calls it "B-tension adjustment"). This adjusts the tension of the upper ("b") spring of the parallelogram, and thus the height of the jockey pulley. The looser this screw is, the closer the jockey pulley will be to the cluster.

The angle adjustment will need to be set according to the size of the largest rear sprocket. If you change to a cluster with a larger or smaller low-gear sprocket, you will need to re-adjust this setting. You will also need to adjust this if you change the length of your chain.

If the angle adjuster is set too loose, :arrow: the jockey pulley will bump into the largest sprocket :idea: when the bicycle is in the lowest gear (large rear, small front). This is the gear you should check the adjustment in. A larger low-gear sprocket may require a different rear derailer, for enough angle adjustment to clear the sprocket. In extreme cases, such as with a Shimano 36-tooth sprocket, a longer angle-adjustment screw may be needed -- some people even install the screw backwards.

Since a derailer shift is caused by forcing the chain to run at an angle, the greater the angle, the sooner it will shift. The closer the jockey pulley is to the cluster, the sharper the angle will be for a given amount of sideways motion of the derailer. Thus, the looser the angle adjuster screw is, the better the shifting will be.

Thats from Sheldon.
Is that what you were referring to?
http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html

Also:

"Road" vs "Mountain" Rear Derailers
Similarly, derailers come in long-, medium- and short-cage versions. Shimano designates them: SGS (long), GS (medium), and SS (short.) The short cage ("road") ones only work with narrow range ("road") cassettes, because they don't have enough capacity to take up chain slack for use with a wide-range cassette. Short- and medium- cage derailers are also limited in terms of the largest rear sprocket that they can clear without having the :arrow: jockey pulley rub on the sprocket :?: :idea: . Generally, SS & GS rear derailers won't work properly with rear sprockets larger than 30 teeth.

Long-cage (SGS) derailers have greater takeup capacity, and work with all types of cassettes. Long-cage derailers are commonly called "mountain" derailers currently, though in the past, this style of derailer was known as a "touring" derailer. (The marketeers retired the use of "touring" as a buzzword in the late '80s when mountain bikes became the hot item.)
http://sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html#derailers
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2516
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: chain trouble yet again,

Postby adrian_d » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:16 pm

Thanks for the heads up. I followed those comments and I was able to install the chain perfectly now thanks very much :)

I did have to use 2 of those shimano master links. Lucky I had spare.

The bike is officially finished now. Thanks for everyones help :)

The Prolite Cuneo lives on
REVISED GOALS FOR THIS/NEXT YEAR
2. Attend 250km Bupa 2014

My Cycling Journey Blog (Needs Updating)
User avatar
adrian_d
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:14 am

Re: chain trouble yet again,

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:34 pm

adrian_d wrote:The bike is officially finished now.

BS, can't see any pics of laundry baskets hiding behind bikes :P
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25552
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: chain trouble yet again,

Postby adrian_d » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:40 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
adrian_d wrote:The bike is officially finished now.

BS, can't see any pics of laundry baskets hiding behind bikes :P


I'll have something extra special tomorrow night for ya hahaha
REVISED GOALS FOR THIS/NEXT YEAR
2. Attend 250km Bupa 2014

My Cycling Journey Blog (Needs Updating)
User avatar
adrian_d
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:14 am


Return to The Shed

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter