rebuilding an old 1" headset

Workshop tales, trials and disasters.
Maintenance tips, techniques and myths.
Technical discussion, description and outright lies

rebuilding an old 1" headset

Postby HappyHumber » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:42 pm

Ok, in the process of rebuilding my commuter, I am weighing up various parts & pieces that I want to transfer between my two 80s era 10/12 speed road frames.

My preferred headset came out off the MBK; It's a branded Shimano, unlike many other verge freebies I've found & dismantled. Whilst it's not a sealed bearing unit, it has a serviceable grommet/seal ring that sits around the crown race and makes for a relatively, clean & neat unit. The thing is... in my over zealousness in dismantling this headset I crushed one of the bearing cages slightly, and instantly lost most of the ball bearings themselves. No big deal I thought - I should be able to get a replacement from one my LBS.

I've been to two Shops this afternoon with no luck - like the cheapo headset I pulled out of the Ricardo frame I am now building up (and was wanting to use the MBK/Shimano HS on) all the two stores had in stock were the caged bearings were about 0.5 - 1mm greater in diameter and too big to fit in the MBK's Shimano cups.

The nicer Shimano unit has the same inner crown race diameter and outer cup diameter to mount in the headtube as that pulled off the Ricardo - but it seems the bearing seat diameter is slightly smaller between the cups & the races :(

Should I be having this trouble getting the right replacement bearing?
Should I just kiss the nice Shimano headset goodbye and resign myself to a cheapie complete replacement unit ?

Kymbo
- Kym
Please don't assume I'm on Facebook.
User avatar
HappyHumber
 
Posts: 4115
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:48 pm
Location: Perth, (S.o.R.) W.A.

by BNA » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:27 am

BNA
 

Postby LuckyPierre » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:27 am

Try Moruya Bicycles - they have a fair few headset spares.
Litespeed Classic - 3Al/2.5V titanium tube set, Record 9-speed groupset, Open Corsa Evo CX
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
User avatar
LuckyPierre
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Canberra, ACT

Postby tallywhacker » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:34 pm

headsets will always run better with bearings out of the cage. Most LBS's should have replacement BB's but I know (from experience) that Elite Racing Cycles definately has loose BBs
Ever since the vasectomy...I mostly ride fixed.
User avatar
tallywhacker
 
Posts: 1598
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: on the road

Postby Kalgrm » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:51 pm

Yep, you don't need the cage, just the bearings. The cages were used to make assembly at the factory quicker, not for any performance gains.

Just use grease to hold them in place while you put the fork into its correct place.

Cheers,
Graeme
Think outside the double triangle.
---------------------------------------
My web site: www.scenebyhird.com
---------------------------------------
The Bicycle Transportation Alliance
User avatar
Kalgrm
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 9236
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 5:21 pm
Location: Spearwood, 9km SE of Fremantle, WA

Postby HappyHumber » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:04 pm

thanks Tally & Graeme

that thought did cross my mind - I asked one of the kids that served me about just packing them with grease & the right size loose bearings - and he said they'd just flog out in no time. This didn't seem right to me. As far as my limited experience & understanding goes - assuming the same number & size of bearings the only advantage the cage would offer is ease of handling. Perhaps he thought I meant pack it with what bearings I had left; I was actually just thinking of comparing the ball sizes between cages and pulling the balls out of a different diameter cage - even if that meant I had to buy couple.

I spose this was a reflection of why the two places I visited yesterday aren't my preferred LBS. They tend to only do in a pinch, when it's nothing outside of the ordinary. Their immediate reflex beyond the token scratch through the parts box was to try and sell me a complete new headset.

Anyway, out to enjoy some of today's sunshine... I have a fork crown brake hole and seat clamp to drill out a bit ;)
- Kym
Please don't assume I'm on Facebook.
User avatar
HappyHumber
 
Posts: 4115
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:48 pm
Location: Perth, (S.o.R.) W.A.

Postby tallywhacker » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:29 pm

Quite a few ball bearing auctions on ebay capn queeg
Ever since the vasectomy...I mostly ride fixed.
User avatar
tallywhacker
 
Posts: 1598
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: on the road

Postby HappyHumber » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:22 pm

Yeah.. sheesh.. you're right.

I can easily count how many bearing there were in the old cage, no worries. but measuring the difference between 5/32" and 3/16".. yeegads!

I realised for some reason I had quickly cleaned up a lot of the old cheapie 1" sets I had pulled apart previously. I have a number of other bearing cage sets tucked away in a box. I might just sit down and even if I can't find a full cage with a diameter to match I'll see how well I can match the ball sizes to that's what left in the original cage and make up the original number and reinstall sans cage.

Of all the money I waste on other things - here I am counting loose second hand ball bearings..... :D
- Kym
Please don't assume I'm on Facebook.
User avatar
HappyHumber
 
Posts: 4115
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:48 pm
Location: Perth, (S.o.R.) W.A.

Postby il padrone » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:37 pm

HappyHumber wrote:I can easily count how many bearing there were in the old cage, no worries. but measuring the difference between 5/32" and 3/16".. yeegads!


But take note that if you use loose balls you will need a few more balls than are in a cage. Generally you fill the race with balls, held in place by a line of grease, but leave a space of 1 or 2 balls.

I reckon this is one advantage of loose balls over a caged set, more balls to spread the load more. Dunno if there's any engineering truth in it though :wink:
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18183
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Postby HappyHumber » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:12 pm

il padrone wrote:But take note that if you use loose balls you will need a few more balls than are in a cage. Generally you fill the race with balls, held in place by a line of grease, but leave a space of 1 or 2 balls.

Nice point, thanks il padrone.

Of all the old cast off clunkers I've pulled apart, this is my first actual rebuild of similar vintage components. I haven't actually even done a hub bearing repack yet - but I do know enough not to ram as many as possible bearings in there - round about 1 balls worth of space should be kept free I remember someone saying - your suggestion for the headset bought this to mind. And those cages I have been looking at today are pretty well spaced out. I'd imagine if the balls were all next to one another - there'd be a considerable gap.

Anyway.. now I realise I need a 32mm headset spanner to properly reassemble, preload/tension this sucker. Just taking them apart with my 12" crescent spanner never taught me this ;)

Kym
User avatar
HappyHumber
 
Posts: 4115
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:48 pm
Location: Perth, (S.o.R.) W.A.

Postby tallywhacker » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:34 pm

dare I say that tonight you are going to sit down and play with your balls ? :wink:
If you take them out of the cage you will need and extra ball to fill the space left by the cage
Ever since the vasectomy...I mostly ride fixed.
User avatar
tallywhacker
 
Posts: 1598
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: on the road


Return to The Shed

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: sorted



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter