Weights/comparison for Groupsets

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Weights/comparison for Groupsets

Postby MichaelB » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:09 pm

Just trying to look into some options, and buggered if I can't find something decent :evil:

But would like to know if there is a site that can give some details of overall weights of groupsets/individual parts.

Looking at a build for the next bike that may or may not include the Cinelli frame that i have

Cheers

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by BNA » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:31 pm

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Postby familyguy » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:31 pm

Try WeightWeenies.

weightweenies dot starbike dot com

Select Listings at the top, grouped by part category.

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Postby MichaelB » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:59 pm

Cheers.

Tried that, and some of it helps, but then there are many options that don't really get me what I want.

Thanks
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Postby sogood » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:13 pm

What do you want? All those data are published and can be obtained though the web sites of the three majors.
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Postby mikesbytes » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:40 pm

Michael, what's important to you in the selection of a group set?
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Postby MichaelB » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:35 pm

sogood wrote:What do you want? All those data are published and can be obtained though the web sites of the three majors.


Tried that on Shimano page.

Basic query is for the 105 Cranket & BB, what is the combined weight, and how does it compare with Dura Ace, and something like a FSA K Force carbon crankset ?

I am toying with some ideas for the Cinelli/next project bike to replace the LeMond, on building a bike that is a good workhorse, but being lighter within a set budget.

I had a look at Weight Weenies, but some of the data is incomplete, scattered throughout the site/forum, anecdotal or questionable.

Some of the manufacturer sites have some data, but not others (e.g. Crankset weight, but not BB weight).

The query is that given with a set of Mavic Aksium wheels (not light), and a Campy 9sp Veloce groupset, if I upgraded to a good level groupset and good wheels, how much would the weight reduce by from the current 10.3kg ?

"Who cares", I hear some say, weight is not everything.

It isn't, but I don't want to build a heavy dream bike if I don't have to.

I don't want to save 50 grams at a cost of $500, but if for judicous part selection I can get a kg or so off, then well & good.

That way I can cherry pic the best bits for longevity and function.

Cheers

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Postby MountGower » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:53 pm

Michael

There are some interesting graphs here. Centaur really looks like enormous value when you look at it's weight and cost.
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Postby mikesbytes » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:37 pm

MountGower wrote:Michael

There are some interesting graphs here. Centaur really looks like enormous value when you look at it's weight and cost.


So if it was just weight vs price then Centaur is the option to go for.
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Postby sogood » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:55 pm

Doesn't Shimano's web site list the weight of individual components? I am surprised. :shock:

Try Chain Reaction or similar retailers, they typically have weight listed for their products.
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Postby familyguy » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:37 pm

Manufacturer listed weights are about as reliable as car manufacturers power outputs. The bike shops may re-check the weights, or maybe they just relist the manufacturers claims.

If the weightweenies stuff is a guide, many of the 'actual' weights are up to 5% more than claimed. On a 2.3kg groupset, you're then up to 2.41kg. Not a jump worth jack shite, I know. But if weight is your underlying enemy, that 100grams could bring you sub-10kg.

Again, all theory...

Looks like the Centaur is a good pick if you like Campy. That'll probably be my group of choice when I redo the project I've got in mind after seeing the link in MountGower's post.

Good luck on your noble quest.

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Postby vitualis » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:47 pm

Wow, didn't realise that there was such a drop in weight between Ultegra and Dura-Ace!

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Postby MountGower » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:18 pm

Commensurate with the jump in price. I guess for most it's a question of price and value for each dollar. The Ultegra would be best for most over Dura Ace, but at least there is actually something on offer for the price doubling.
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Postby vitualis » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:33 pm

True.

The comparison, of course, is with the Campy groups. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the higher end Campagnolo groupsets (I've actually got their 2008 line up brochure free from Ribble Cycles!) is that they are VERY similar from the point of view of the actual parts, but, there is increasingly more carbon fibre/lighter weight sub-components.

It seems to me then that you are definitely getting less value for money as you go up the Campy food chain.

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Postby sogood » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:33 pm

vitualis wrote:It seems to me then that you are definitely getting less value for money as you go up the Campy food chain.

No different to anything in the market place. It's about point of diminishing returns.
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Postby MichaelB » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:54 am

MountGower wrote:Michael

There are some interesting graphs here. Centaur really looks like enormous value when you look at it's weight and cost.


Interesting thread.

Problem is, whilst some of the things with my short flirtation with Campag were very good, the thumb levers just don't quite fit with me.

Mind you, at Chain reaction, you can get a full Durace 9sp setup for less than 1K delivered !!!

The graph is good, but still doesn't quite get what I want.

sogood wrote:Doesn't Shimano's web site list the weight of individual components? I am surprised. :shock:

Try Chain Reaction or similar retailers, they typically have weight listed for their products.


One some parts they do (Shimano), and others they don't. Then with others, they list the same weight for all 3 levels of chains :roll:

Some of the key suppliers list the same weight as OEM pages, and some do for some components and then not for others :evil:

Oh well, will keep looking and see what i can find.

Cheers
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Postby MichaelB » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:39 am

Using what was stated on Competitive Cyclist, it seems that the key query that I had (what is the weight difference between a Dura Ace Crankset + BB, and an FSA K-Force Crankset + BB (Carbon)) is that the FSA is 40 grams heavier !!

Dura Ace Crankset + BB - 740gm
FSA K-Force Crankset + BB - 780gm
Campag Centaur Crankset + BB - 877gm

So, the question has been answered, sort of.
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Postby sogood » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:13 am

There's now a CF version of the Centaur crankset and obviously lighter.
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Postby MountGower » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:14 pm

It would also be fairer to compare Dura Ace with Chorus, not Centaur.
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Postby MichaelB » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:57 pm

MountGower wrote:It would also be fairer to compare Dura Ace with Chorus, not Centaur.


Campag Chorus Crankset & BB - 730gm
Campag Record Crankset & BB - 693gm

I think the Centaur one was the Carbon version.

Irrelevant anyway, I'm 99% going Shimano
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Postby wayno » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:03 pm

From cyclenews.com 105 vs Dura Ace

Click Here
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Postby MichaelB » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:54 pm

wayno wrote:From cyclenews.com 105 vs Dura Ace

Click Here


Seen it, but it doesn't have the 105 Crankset weight & BB weight, which is what I am after
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Postby wayno » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:09 pm

Ahh yes it does the text does not line up.

105 crank 766g Dura Ace crank 639g

Or just buy the latest RIDE mag, in the CR1 review has all actual weights
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Postby familyguy » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:16 pm

wayno wrote:Ahh yes it does the text does not line up.

105 crank 766g Dura Ace crank 639g

Or just buy the latest RIDE mag, in the CR1 review has all actual weights


BB (english threads): DA - 99g, 105, 100g
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Postby mikesbytes » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:52 pm

I would tend to be more picky with the bits that last the life of the bike and less picky with the bits that wear out on a regular basis.

Using the Shimano example, I would tend towards buying a Durace group set and replace the chain components as they wear out with Ultegra or 105.
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Postby MichaelB » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:24 am

wayno wrote:Ahh yes it does the text does not line up.

105 crank 766g Dura Ace crank 639g

Or just buy the latest RIDE mag, in the CR1 review has all actual weights


:oops: Didn't see the table below ....

The latest BA magazine also has a good comparo between Dura Ace, SRAM Red and Record.
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