Suntour Sprint 9000 drivetrain - Refurb or Replace?

[Rob74]

Hi,

Working on my next rebuild project a 1988 steel roadbike, fitted with Suntour Sprint 9000 drivetrain.
* Rear Hub Shimano 105 with Suntour Winner Pro 7Sp Cluster (removal with SUNTOUR 4-key removal tool No. TA-320).
* Chain Suntour SP6200 - Chain is neglected, presently soaking in Two stoke mower fuel to see if I can recover it.
=>> Not sure whether this post should be posted in "BNA Shed" or "BNA Retro"…SuperMOD, can move or link it if thought necessary…...
Some background on SUNTOUR SPRINT here
Suntour History a & Suntour History b

Chain
SUNTOUR PRO =>> SP-6200
•Dia-Hard pin treatment •High arch inner link plate* Finish: Silver (outer link)
Black (inner link) Size: V6"x%2" ultra narrow Pin width: 7.3mm Weight (116 links): 331g 'When fitting SP-6200 always ensure that the cut-away portion of the high arch inner link faces the centre of the chainwheel when viewed from the chainwheel side of the bicycle
SP6200 a, SP6200 b, SP6200 c
=>> notice the unique chain links......

Suntour Cables
Suntour Genuine Cables

Group Set
Sprint 9000 Groupo a, Sprint 9000 Groupo b, Sprint 9000 Groupo c
NOS Full Group Set
Sprint 9000 Groupo d

Very neat Biddle Time Trial with SUNTOUR Sprint:
Biddle Time Trial

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Considering all this I have a few Qu's, hoping someone can help……(as until now I have only had Shimano 600AX & Shmano 105.)
1) Can you measure the wear of a Suntour SP-6200 chain with a Park Tools CC-2? What would be the expected reading on a new chain? What would be the wear limit? Does someone have a NOS SP-6200 Chain Technical leaflet? Can you still buy the joining pins?
2) If the SP-6200 Chain cannot be recovered, is there somewhere in Australia that would have NOS for sale? I can see that some NOS SP-6200's have sold on ebay in the recent past ex USA etc
3) Do you think it is worthwhile trying to get the SUNTOUR Sprint 9000 drivetrain functional? ie clean everything probably new cables, and outers, recovered chain (or new chain)….or is it likely that it will chatter under load and shift poorly ie never with the same precision as my replacement option of NOS late 1980's Shimano 600 drive train?
4) Can the Suntour Winner Pro Rear Cluster be removed and replaced with a late 1980's Shimano 600 Cluster using the existing Shimano 105 rear hub? (I have to borrow a 4 Prong Suntour Removal tool to take off the existing Winner Pro cluster, just wanting to know before I head down that path)
5) Can the Shimano SIS Down tube shifters be fitted onto the Suntour Accu-Shift "Click" indexed down tube shifters Bidon Mounts?
6) The rear cluster ratchet feels okay but my preference is to strip it down and instal new grease on the bearings and pall teeth mechanism, are the Suntour Winner Pro rear clusters suitable to disassemble?
7) The OEM Suntour install doc's talk about using the Special Suntour Cable outers, ie not standard run of the mill spiral sheath, rather the platted wire sheath. "Jagwire" after marker cable outers have a platted wire sheath can these be used successfully with new stainless steel cables…..instead of the "Suntour Specials" ?

=>> Thoughts and experiences with Suntour Sprint 9000 Drive train welcome.

Thanks,
Rob.

[drubie]

Chains are identical pitch to everybody else, so a standard chain wear tool will work fine for checking wear.
It'd be nice to have a NOS Suntour chain but really, any 6-8 speed chain will work and look nice. Shimano HG50 or similar look very much like the suntour chains anyway. The HG50 is specifically set up for the ramping / pinning on an indexed Shimano setup but they'll work fine.
I think it's worthwile to get it working - you might find it works better now than in period due to the better quality cable outers available.
I'm not sure the spacing on the Suntour sprint cluster and the shimano 600 are the same, you need to double check the spacing (might be something at Sheldon). If the spacing from centre of cog to centre of cog is identical, either freewheel will work fine. The 4 prong removers can be had from wiggle or ebay for less than $10.
You might be able to fit the shifters from a shimano set onto the ratchet mechanism of the suntour set but why bother?

I wouldn't worry too much about having to use Suntour specific cables - any gear cable used for indexing will be fine. The primary reason they specified specific cable outers in period was that normal friction cable outers used to have a bit of compression/give in them which didn't work well with the indexing at all.

Pretty much all the big manufacturers had indexing of one sort or another during the period, shimanos only real advantage was that theirs still worked when it was maladjusted. This isn't quite as true of the Suntour (and early Campagnolo synchro stuff either). However, that doesn't mean you can't get it to work beautifully with a bit of care.

[familyguy]

Whilst I don't have too much specific input re: Sprint, I would note generally that there's no reason why this stuff can't work as well as (and some might say better than) the Shimano 600 stuff. I've had a couple of pairs of Sprint cranks go through my place, and they're well made, nice to look at, and seem to to their job well. Sprint gear was no slouch. It was designed to compete with 600EX/Ultegra, so I don't think you'd gain anything necessarily by going for the NOS 600 over refurb'ing the Sprint gear.

Some answers here in blue.

1) Can you measure the wear of a Suntour SP-6200 chain with a Park Tools CC-2? What would be the expected reading on a new chain? What would be the wear limit? Does someone have a NOS SP-6200 Chain Technical leaflet? Can you still buy the joining pins?

Yes, it can be measured. Widths changed, pitch (length) didn't. Don't know about your other questions.

2) If the SP-6200 Chain cannot be recovered, is there somewhere in Australia that would have NOS for sale? I can see that some NOS SP-6200's have sold on ebay in the recent past ex USA etc

IMHO, Buckleys. Replacing it with a more recent chain won't cause troubles.

3) Do you think it is worthwhile trying to get the SUNTOUR Sprint 9000 drivetrain functional? ie clean everything probably new cables, and outers, recovered chain (or new chain)….or is it likely that it will chatter under load and shift poorly ie never with the same precision as my replacement option of NOS late 1980's Shimano 600 drive train?

Yeah, if you've got it, you possibly won't have to spend up big to get it working, but a NOS gruppo might cost you a penny.

4) Can the Suntour Winner Pro Rear Cluster be removed and replaced with a late 1980's Shimano 600 Cluster using the existing Shimano 105 rear hub? (I have to borrow a 4 Prong Suntour Removal tool to take off the existing Winner Pro cluster, just wanting to know before I head down that path)

Yes. Is it a 7-speed? I believe everyone's 7-speed was almost identically spaced back then.

5) Can the Shimano SIS Down tube shifters be fitted onto the Suntour Accu-Shift "Click" indexed down tube shifters Bidon Mounts?

Yes. All DT shifters pretty much used the same mounting setup, except some of the aero models.

6) The rear cluster ratchet feels okay but my preference is to strip it down and instal new grease on the bearings and pall teeth mechanism, are the Suntour Winner Pro rear clusters suitable to disassemble?

No idea.

7) The OEM Suntour install doc's talk about using the Special Suntour Cable outers, ie not standard run of the mill spiral sheath, rather the platted wire sheath. "Jagwire" after marker cable outers have a platted wire sheath can these be used successfully with new stainless steel cables…..instead of the "Suntour Specials" ?

Marketing speak. Probably ignore.

Jim

[ironhanglider]

1) Can you measure the wear of a Suntour SP-6200 chain with a Park Tools CC-2?
- Probably but you can also measure wear with a steel ruler, or by direct comparison to a new chain. (I have a new chain hanging on a nail, when I take my chain off to clean I hang it on the same nail, more than half a link longer and I put the new chain on and buy another one to hang as my yardstick
What would be the expected reading on a new chain?
- NFI
What would be the wear limit?
-.5% is enough for me, some push it further such as to .75% but the more you let the chain lengthen the more likely you are to wear the cogs past the point that they will work with a new chain
Does someone have a NOS SP-6200 Chain Technical leaflet?
- Not me
Can you still buy the joining pins?
- There are no joining pins. All those pins are straight cylinders. When breaking the chain make sure you don't push the pin all the way out, if you leave it a little bit proud on the inside of the side plate it will make it easier to locate the inner link when you re-join the chain.
2) If the SP-6200 Chain cannot be recovered, is there somewhere in Australia that would have NOS for sale? I can see that some NOS SP-6200's have sold on ebay in the recent past ex USA etc
- Unlikely, newer chains will work at least as well anyway.
3) Do you think it is worthwhile trying to get the SUNTOUR Sprint 9000 drivetrain functional? ie clean everything probably new cables, and outers, recovered chain (or new chain)….or is it likely that it will chatter under load and shift poorly ie never with the same precision as my replacement option of NOS late 1980's Shimano 600 drive train?
- If it works properly it will work well
4) Can the Suntour Winner Pro Rear Cluster be removed and replaced with a late 1980's Shimano 600 Cluster using the existing Shimano 105 rear hub? (I have to borrow a 4 Prong Suntour Removal tool to take off the existing Winner Pro cluster, just wanting to know before I head down that path)
- Yes, the exceptions to this are exceedingly rare
5) Can the Shimano SIS Down tube shifters be fitted onto the Suntour Accu-Shift "Click" indexed down tube shifters Bidon Mounts?
- ??? A bidon is a fancy word for a bottle. If you mean "will the Shimano shifters fit the same shifter braze-ons as the Suntour shifters?" then the answer is yes. Again the exceptions are very rare. Strap on mounts can be a different story though.
6) The rear cluster ratchet feels okay but my preference is to strip it down and instal new grease on the bearings and pall teeth mechanism, are the Suntour Winner Pro rear clusters suitable to disassemble?
- Pulling clusters apart is the realm of the brave mechanics with time on their hands and good magnets to retrieve the myriad little balls and pawl springs. Winner Pro's are as easy as any of them though. I would never grease the ramps and pawls it is likely that you'd gum them up to the point where they don't engage properly. Oil is sufficient. Instead of pulling it apart you can achieve most of the same result by simply squirting WD-40 or similar into the workings while you spin it. Once clean you can drip some oil in the same way.
7) The OEM Suntour install doc's talk about using the Special Suntour Cable outers, ie not standard run of the mill spiral sheath, rather the platted wire sheath. "Jagwire" after marker cable outers have a platted wire sheath can these be used successfully with new stainless steel cables…..instead of the "Suntour Specials" ?
- Modern cables will work better than the originals.

Thanks,
Rob.

There seems to be a lot of differentiation without real improvement in this groupset as evidenced by the chain and cables which perform no differently to others of the period. I agree with Drubie that you could probably get it working better than the original due to modern cables and a more modern cluster.

Cheers,

Cameron