Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby Crittski » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:34 pm

Nice to see you got out on it for its maiden voyage! Very glad to be able to be able to help. I know what you mean about everything turning to shite! I decided to quickly adjust the angle my rear banjo was set at and contaminated the pads and rotor and spent the next three months trying to get new pads for it!

Enjoy the ride!
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by BNA » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:19 pm

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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:19 pm

The damn moderator won't let me post the pic I'm thinking of :(
That is just...just...just...
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:28 pm

Crowz wrote:I'm very curious what the total build cost was, would you mind sharing? If you'd rather not post it on here (or pm) I understand.

Looks awesome though!!


Thanks.

Total cost was around the $4.5k mark, but the numbers are at work, so will confirm later in the week.

F, F, seatpost and headset are $2395 of that though. Most of the other bits were bought with WW in mind, aesthetics and functionality.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:31 pm

Mulger bill wrote:The damn moderator won't let me post the pic I'm thinking of :(
That is just...just...just...


Just what :P

Imagine what it'd be like if you got to ride it !!!

Took it for another spin today up & down Mt Osmond Rd (for the local Adealadians). The down Mt Osmond bit has some really tight hairpins on smooth roads where the approach speed is around 75km/hr to a 15km/hr hairpin.

Great fun indeed :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:36 pm

Thanks for sharing the progress Michael.

One thing I notice is the aesthetics and that with the black rims is that the tires seem wide and combined with the disc brakes I am reminded of a Cannondale Badboy.

A lovely, sleek and fast looking frame. The detailing reminds me of the styling of the De Rosa you just reviews with the thin ling following the frame around. Really looking forward to some more an indepth on the disc brakes.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:47 am

Hi Chris,

Yep, I'm really pleased with the way the rims match with the frame - the 25c tyres fit on the rims really well.

Oh, and realised that I hadn't listed the basic specs !! :shock:

F & F : Volagi Liscio – Gen 2 (135mm rear spacing & full brake hyd hose/cable internal routing)
Brakes : TRP Parabox (Gen 1) with 180mm/160mm RT86 Ice-Tech rotors
Wheels : Farsports 29er carbon clinchers, Circus Monkey hubs & Pillar bladed spokes
Tyres : Schwalbe Ultremo ZX 25c
Cockpit : 3T ‘Team’ Ergonova Carbon Bars & Alloy stem, Tillquist Garmin mount
Shifters, FD & RD : 6700 Ultegra Mechanical
Crank : SRAM RED Exogram Compact BB30, 175mm arms, Praxis Works chainrings


Oh, and for Crowz - the cost was a shade under $4k actual outlay, but I already had the Parabox, tyres and RD, so the $4.5k would be pretty close to replicate it again.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby Sharkey » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:32 am

Well done! Congratulations on a great build.

Love the look.

Love the hydro discs.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:42 pm

Sharkey wrote:Well done! Congratulations on a great build.

Love the look.

Love the hydro discs.


:D Thanks
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:47 pm

After getting more than annoyed with the chainsaw ratchet on the rear hub, I took it apart to see if I could quieten it down.

Got it apart with a couple of 5mm hex keys only to discover there was bigger all. So mixed up some thick oil and grease and applied it liberally.

Popped it all back together and smooth silence was the result.

Happy camper :P
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby eeksll » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:34 pm

That bike looks fantastic.

love the black tyres on the black rims minus the brake track. It also looks a lot cleaner without the rear rim brake and brake cables.

Not sure about the gold chain though.

MichaelB wrote:After getting more than annoyed with the chainsaw ratchet on the rear hub, I took it apart to see if I could quieten it down.

Got it apart with a couple of 5mm hex keys only to discover there was bigger all. So mixed up some thick oil and grease and applied it liberally.

Popped it all back together and smooth silence was the result.

Happy camper :P


I can't stand the ratchet of my dt-swiss wheels, the dt-swiss grease only lasts s short time though. Been tempted to try something thicker but read a few bad stories on the net about thick grease.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:36 am

eeksll wrote:That bike looks fantastic.

love the black tyres on the black rims minus the brake track. It also looks a lot cleaner without the rear rim brake and brake cables.

Not sure about the gold chain though.




Ta.

Accept the chain comments. That was a selection of function, as it had gotten a good recommendation, so I thought I'd give it a go.


Actually, the wheelset turned out better than I thought. Given the width of the rims, the budget for the parts ($630 total), I'm really happy with the finished weight (1,421g) especially given the 28/32 spoke combo and how it all looks as itself, as well as on the bike.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby Mugglechops » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:11 pm

Awesome I just found your thread.

Just one thing to watch after owning my CX bike with discs is to be careful when removing the rear wheel.

The disc can rub on the inside of the chainstay and take a chunk out of it.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:27 am

Welcome Mugglechops, and thanks for the tip. No issues so far though.


jasonc wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Next part is using the Di2 ports to run the light cables internal andmake the Magic shine battery fit into the ssatpost and havean extrnal charge port :D


c o o l


Some progress to date in this. Have parts and a wiring plan and a route through the seatpost. Looking good so far.

Waiting on a shorter seatpost as the one to use, rather than the std supplied long one. Helps save a bit of weight too :D

Should be able to start modding the battery pack this weekend though.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:02 pm

260km down so afr and all is still well :D

Had a second crack at making a seatpost version of the magic shine battery. Version 1 went down in a screaming heap due to a bit too much heat on the com terminal of the chage cct protection board.

Some valuable lessons learnt, and a second attempt ..... Lucky I have a few spare batteries ... :roll:

The batteries are actually a VERY tight fit in the seatpost, and there is about 2mm spare in dia for the assy to fit. :shock:

So here are some pics ...

Image

Image


Yes, that soldering is very rough. I'm a mechanical person, so lay off !!!

Anyway, a trial fit revealed I have to be better with my wiring on the outside of the battery (they all have to run together), so that is something I can fix (bought plenty of heat shrink).

2nd problem, and probably most important. It doesn't work. I think I have a bad solder joint, as there is no oomph, so out with the multimeter tomorrow to test.

Oh well, to expect it to work 1st time was a bit ambitious. Well, I'm up to the 2nd so far, so hopefully 3rd time lucky ....
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:02 pm

It turns out that it is the charging/balancing cct board that was the issue.

One option was to sacrifice another battery and do the same again, or to get a suitable charger (that has the charge/balancing cct inbuilt) and do it that way. One downside is that there are another 3 wires that need to come up the seatpost along with the connector. But, i then don't need to worry about the Magic shine cct.

A few discussions at Jaycar pointed me to their $99 charger, which was a bit more than I wanted to pay, so did some searching on ebay, and came up with this Balance Charger Cell Checker 2s~4s Lipo

A bit cheaper at $26 delivered, and then snaffled some appropriate connectors to fit in the charger as well, but from a different supplier, of course ... :roll:

Getting a bit harder than I first thought, but I'll get there in the end .... I think.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Sat May 04, 2013 4:06 pm

Time for a quick update.

Mudguards fitted and then it stops raining !!

Out for a ride today and someone recognised the bike, so that is for the compliment :D

All going well so far and working out how to save the money to full hydro with either SRAM or Shimano .....
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby Mark Kelly » Sun May 05, 2013 10:42 pm

Michael

Presuming these are 18650 Li cells you are asking for trouble soldering directly to the cell. The preferred method is to use cells with welded tabs then solder to the tabs. See here for welded tabs: http://www.ebay.com.au/bhp/18650-battery-with-tabs

You also need to improve your technique to avoid dry joints. Before soldering to the tabs, pre-tin them (e.g. get a little bit of solder on them and make sure it wets the surface properly - as soon as you achieve this it will be obvious, the solder flows across the surface). Pre-tin your wire terminations as well.

Solder the pre-tinned wire ends to the pre-tinned tab holding the soldering iron tip against the wire until the two surfaces amalgamate, then take the iron away but DO NOT MOVE ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL THE SOLDER IS COOL. This takes WAY longer than you think it does.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby Nobody » Sun May 05, 2013 11:02 pm

Since we're being all helpful and stuff, I wouldn't even be placing a string of cells into an expensive frame that wasn't designed to be there. Having said that, if you can afford to replace the frame then don't let me stop you. These days I'm trying not to poke my nose into peoples business if they'd rather learn from their own mistakes. So please,...continue. :mrgreen:
Actually, do you video your rides? I can't remember ever seeing smoke coming out of a frame before. :P

Edit: Grammar.
Last edited by Nobody on Mon May 06, 2013 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Mon May 06, 2013 8:45 am

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info and tips, and already knew many of them and that my ideas and dreams well exceeded my capabilities. In the end, it didn't pan out as it just got too difficult trying to package it all in.

I ended up just running the wires internally and hung the battery pack under the seatpost. Not quite what I wanted, but it's better than spoiling the great frame lines and running some big & ugly wires externally. Has been functioning well so far, so that's good.


(AT) Nobody,

See above, didn't run the internal battery, as risk of brown smoke escaping the battery pack was one issue whet I didn't end up going that route.

And no, don't video rides, so you can't see it .... :lol:
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby barefoot » Mon May 06, 2013 9:25 am

Nobody wrote:Since we're being all helpful and stuff, I wouldn't even be placing a string of cells into an expensive frame that wasn't designed to be there. Having said that, if you can afford to replace the frame then don't let me stop you. These days I'm trying not to poke my nose into peoples business if they'd rather learn from their own mistakes. So please,...continue. :mrgreen:
Actually, do you video your rides? I can't remember ever seeing smoke coming out of a frame before. :P

Edit: Grammar.


I'm curious as to what failure mode you're predicting and recommending against.

Properly insulated battery pack wedged snug inside an insulative carbon frame. Worst case I can see is that his soldering isn't up to scratch and a wire breaks off, leaving him riding a very expensive singlespeed.

Or are you predicting that the frame is so finely optimised for strength that the extra weight of a battery pack rattling around where it wasn't designed to be is going to cause frame failure?

I would hesitate to install a battery pack inside an aluminium frame, but... carbon?

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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby Nobody » Mon May 06, 2013 10:04 am

barefoot wrote:I'm curious as to what failure mode you're predicting and recommending against.
It was as much comical as a real warning.

However:
- Li-ion batteries have been known to catch fire if not charged properly.
- In rare cases, high energy density batteries have failed and caught fire.
- Battery cells can internally fail and expand rendering them difficult to extract.
- Vibration and movement can cause wear to insulation over time.
- Water can get past the seatpost to cause corrosion, electrolysis etc.
- Battery cooling would be compromised inside a carbon frame, shortening battery life.

But like I said, don't let my paranoia stop anyone from experimenting. :)
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby boyracer » Wed May 08, 2013 12:27 pm

MichaelB wrote:Time for a quick update.

Mudguards fitted and then it stops raining !!

Out for a ride today and someone recognised the bike, so that is for the compliment :D



Twas me on the red pig( specialized MTB cx'd). I'd just had a ball coming down through Belair/mitcham trails from sheoak...nice n muddy!
Not sure on the guards though.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby MichaelB » Wed May 08, 2013 2:13 pm

boyracer wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Time for a quick update.

Mudguards fitted and then it stops raining !!

Out for a ride today and someone recognised the bike, so that is for the compliment :D



Twas me on the red pig( specialized MTB cx'd). I'd just had a ball coming down through Belair/mitcham trails from sheoak...nice n muddy!
Not sure on the guards though.


Looked like you'd had some muddy fun.

Guards are to do a job when it rains :roll: , but since they have been on its been a bit dry .....
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby boyracer » Wed May 08, 2013 3:26 pm

Yar. i have ordered some SKS 45's for winter commute to mawson lakes. Will trial fit and leave off till last minute though.
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Re: Volagi Liscio (Gen 2) build thread

Postby eeksll » Wed May 08, 2013 4:43 pm

MichaelB wrote:Guards are to do a job when it rains :roll: , but since they have been on its been a bit dry .....


yeah, to keep the rain away. I put mine on my commuter and it hasn't rained once ... not that I am complaining :mrgreen:
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