Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

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Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby spewyewi » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:59 pm

Hi

I am currently running a Shogun Samurai singlespeed with a modern road wheel conversion.

I am not overly confident with QR skewers on the back wheel and consequently am a bit reluctant to really push the bike..

Cell is knocking out Sturmey Archer rear wheels with a two speed hub and bolt up axle for a very cheap price.

1. has anyone had any experience with this hub/wheel?
2. if it is specifically designed for 120mm rear hub will it fit in my old Samurai? i think the ad says the axle length is 160mm...I'm assuming the Samurai is 126mm maybe old 8 speed...

any suggestions...

thanks
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by BNA » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:05 pm

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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:05 pm

You don't need to have any concern about using a QR on your singlespeed, they hold just fine on MTBs with very short gears which put much greater torque through the wheel than anything you could do on a normal SS gear.

Re the 2 speed Sturmey hubs, i haven't used one myself but have heard less than glowing reports on them. I'm sure someone who does have personal experience of them will be able to provide more info.
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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby spirito » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:37 pm

ldrcycles wrote:... have heard less than glowing reports on them.


I'll go even further .... They're sh-t.

If a 2 speed mininal hub is your scene I'd suggest a Duomatic Torpedo.
http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/torpedo-duomatic-fs/
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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby WyvernRH » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:07 am

spirito wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:... have heard less than glowing reports on them.


I'll go even further .... They're sh-t.

If a 2 speed mininal hub is your scene I'd suggest a Duomatic Torpedo.
http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/torpedo-duomatic-fs/


That's interesting, no personal experience of the S/A stuff but I'm surprised SunRace would put out a product that has accrued such bad press.

+1 on the Duomatic, totally unbustable!

Cheers
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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby barefoot » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:11 am

WyvernRH wrote:That's interesting, no personal experience of the S/A stuff but I'm surprised SunRace would put out a product that has accrued such bad press.


I'm less surprised.

I had a fair bit to do with bikes that had Sunrace / Sturmey's first generation XRD-8 (drum-brake 8-speed) rear hubs, circa 2008.

They were deeply unimpressive things.

They never shifted very well, and certainly couldn't be shifted under load as most modern gearhubs claim they can be.

I personally broke 2 of them. Symptoms consistent with a blown ring gear, from being overloaded. I like to think I can lay a bit of power down when I need to, but I'm no pro, and I never, ever break drivetrain bits... except for these ones.

Other than my two, I sold about 60 bikes fitted with them, and had to replace 3 rear wheels that failed. That's a pretty terrible warranty rate. I know that others replaced their rear wheels because they simply didn't like the hub.

Later model XRD-8 hubs were/are substantially bulkier, so I assume they beefed them up a bit inside. I've never had one of the new ones.

Suffice to say, Sunrace aren't above releasing a dud product with the Sturmey-Archer brand on it. The XRD-8 history suggests that they're able to receive market feedback and act on it to fix a bad product... but if a Sturmey product has bad press, I wouldn't be buying it until version 2.0. At least.

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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby spewyewi » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:24 am

ldrcycles wrote:You don't need to have any concern about using a QR on your singlespeed, they hold just fine on MTBs with very short gears which put much greater torque through the wheel than anything you could do on a normal SS gear.

Re the 2 speed Sturmey hubs, i haven't used one myself but have heard less than glowing reports on them. I'm sure someone who does have personal experience of them will be able to provide more info.


Thanks for all the advice guys...i'll lay off the SA wheel then.

As for the QR on singlespeeds, I'm a big boy and if I have to get out of the saddle to kick it up a short sharp rise it can slip..not very confidence inspiring...I may have to shell out for some older Dura Ace or Ultegra skewers, the modern/showtime plastic/alloy ones aren't much use on a horizontal drop out. I have read a lot about the Halo Allan key ones as well, but a lot of reports on those snapping off if you over torque.

any other options apart from getting a single speed specific wheel with a bigger axle and bolts???
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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby ironhanglider » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:25 am

spewyewi wrote:Hi

I am not overly confident with QR skewers on the back wheel and consequently am a bit reluctant to really push the bike..




I can't comment on the hubs, but I do wonder about this statement. Lots of really powerful riders rode with forward pointing dropouts and QR skewers for decades.

Since the advent of vertical dropouts QRs have been degraded and don't clamp as well as they used to. An old fashioned internal cam QR on the back will be more than adequate for your purposes. Something like this.View item

Cheers,

Cameron.
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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby barefoot » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:29 pm

ironhanglider wrote:Since the advent of vertical dropouts QRs have been degraded and don't clamp as well as they used to. An old fashioned internal cam QR on the back will be more than adequate for your purposes.


I'm not sure what it is about the rear end on my MTB (Corratec Xvert, new late 2011), but I have a hell of a time keeping a wheel straight in its vertical dropouts. I was having all sorts of trouble with disc brake caliper alignment, until I stomped it hard in granny ring one day and suddenly got tyre rub on the chainstay. Releasing the QR to reseat the axle in the pocket of the dropout fixes it. So obviously I'm slipping the axle... even with the QR done up as tight as I can, tighter than I've ever done a QR on any other bike. Not sure what it is about this frame... maybe it has slightly wider dropouts than my other frames, so is more prone to misalignment.

I tried a few different QRs, but the cure has been to switch from the DT QR that came with it to a good old internal-cam XT.

So I second the motion that newer QRs are crap.

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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby rjk » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:00 pm

I had trouble with a skewer that came with my jet black trainer kept slipping all the time, i switched back to the ones that came with my RS80 wheels no issue at all

there are definitely dofferent quality in the skewers, maybe hard metal on hard metal for the dropouts = slipping

My Bike has harizontal dropouts
Boardman CX pro now the commuter, Salsa Casseroll, Trek Domane
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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby HappyHumber » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:27 pm

Are any of the latter day Sunrace era Sturmey Archer products up to standard?

I say this because I'd like to make my old Postie bike a bit more versatile with a 2 or 3 speed coaster brake, rather than the SS Shimano D-type coaster it as now. Ideally I'd like a British period SA unit of known or favourable provenance - but open to recommendation for something similar from SACHS/SRAM.

Frame and current hub are 110mm OLD spaced - most current, new units I've seen specced at least 126mm plus which may also present a problem - that might be pushing the cold setting a bit far, I'd guess.
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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby spirito » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:28 pm

HappyHumber wrote:

Frame and current hub are 110mm OLD spaced - most current, new units I've seen specced at least 126mm plus which may also present a problem - that might be pushing the cold setting a bit far, I'd guess.


That's tricky ... I think the current shimano 3 speed hubs are good. Simple but robust and easy to keep running but they're gonna be 120mm at best.
http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/ ... ype-..html

I might suggest finding an older 70's era Sturmey Hub .. sometimes cheaper to find a donor bike and strip the hub, cabling and shifter. Or call Abbotsford Cycles and see what the ma have. The are excellent at servicing older Sturmey's so if the don't have one I'm sure buying a used and having them overhaul it will mean you'll have a great hub with which to build a wheel around. That most of the older Sturmey's have steel shells means it shouldn't be a problem building it up again unlike older alloy hubshell's which sometimes have too much spoke pull deformation on the flanges.
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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby HappyHumber » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:47 pm

Cheers Spirito
Yeah, since my last post I had found a few references to the Shimano SG-3C41. Sheldon Brown seemed to think well enough of them. I did see the figure of 120mm OLD, which maaaay be doable I guess. More research required. Seen prices in the region of $USD 85 - some seem to include shifting hardware and others not.

The bikes current SS gearing is 46x22. I thought this was low until I took it up a hill the other night. Yeesh, then I realised it wasn't that low considering the weight of the bike! I wouldn't have wanted to do it loaded. Judicious braking in order coming down again later, I tell ya! I may swap the front 'ring to a 44 to lower it a smidge to 44x22 for my 1:1 base gear. Should also give me better clearance for a double kick stand I want to mount on it as well.
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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby spirito » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:52 pm

Cogs for the Shimano are about $8-$12 depending on where you buy from. Depending on the rim size I'm pretty sure you can order a complete built wheel from most any Local Bike Store (through Quality Bike Parts aka Incommex) for around $100 ($20 +/-). Just a rough guess, but I've ordered such before. It'll be a basic wheel but good enough.

The hub is quite crude but plenty tough and simple to set/adjust. It's only a 3 speed so the gaps are quite wide between ratio's but it'll rolls well enough once it loosens up. The come in a coaster and roller brake options ... both OK but I'd always recommend at least a front rim brake in addition as both hub brake options aren't very effective for long descents.

Best thing is ... it's Shimano, so plenty of tech docs, spares if needed and local warranty.
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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby HappyHumber » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:02 pm

The Postie has a front drum brake, but it's not hooked up atm because I'm waiting on replacement pinch bolt & loooong barrel adjuster from a couple of German e-bay sellers. I soon found out on that downhill if you must have less than sub-par brakes - at least try and have two of them! The Sachs/SRAM drum unit came just jury-rigged with regular bike caliper bolts & short adjustor. How the heck they managed to hook it up without at least 3 or 4 hands, I don't know.

Simple & crude works for me :) I just have to learn to ride it to its limitations.
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Re: Sturmey Archer wheel on Cell + Shogun

Postby kukamunga » Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:15 pm

HappyHumber wrote:Yeah, since my last post I had found a few references to the Shimano SG-3C41. Sheldon Brown seemed to think well enough of them. I did see the figure of 120mm OLD, which maaaay be doable I guess. More research required
I'm running a SG-3C41 on my Project Kuwahara Cross Coaster, which has been seeing a bit of local bike path/trail bashing and commuting lately. This hub sourced from Shimano Australia has 120mm OLD, but 127mm is an option you may be able to source from elsewhere

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