Parafin Wax

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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby MattyK » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:17 pm

jacks1071 wrote:I bought the "friction facts" report and the guy there does a parafin wax brew but doesn't disclose the exact recipie however it seemed that PTFE was the key additive.

He published it.
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by BNA » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:52 pm

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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby QuangVuong » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:52 pm

Im thinking of going with this method of lubing, but Ive got a hollow chain. How would I go about getting rid of the excess wax in all the holes, etc? Give it a shake while the wax is still in liquid form?
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby barefoot » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:14 pm

QuangVuong wrote:Im thinking of going with this method of lubing, but Ive got a hollow chain. How would I go about getting rid of the excess wax in all the holes, etc? Give it a shake while the wax is still in liquid form?


Maybe.

Or maybe just... don't get rid of it.

What are you trying to solve by getting rid of that wax? It's not like it's heavy (like the steel that is usually in those holes). If it's in the way of anything, it will rub/chip/flake off. If not... it will just stay there until next time you melt it.

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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby QuangVuong » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:50 pm

Just for looks, really. The chain was fully cleaned back to its proper gold colour and I wanna keep it that way.

How much Nulon did you mix in with approx how much wax(can I use a standard candle with the wick removed?)? And does it have to be Nulon, or will any engine oil suffice?
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby Bob_TAS » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:20 pm

I bathed my chain in ~500g paraffin wax from an art supplies store with a good lashing of ProLink for ships and giggles just to see how it would go.

Providing you remove the chain before the wax begins to set you shouldn't notice too much buildup.

It's been a long while since I could hear naught but tyre roll :D
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby im_no_pro » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:58 pm

QuangVuong wrote:How much Nulon did you mix in with approx how much wax(can I use a standard candle with the wick removed?)? And does it have to be Nulon, or will any engine oil suffice?


Use Nulon engine additive, not engine oil. I assume people are using one of E10, E20 or E30 (E10 at a guess) because they contain PTFE.
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby barefoot » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:55 am

im_no_pro wrote:
QuangVuong wrote:How much Nulon did you mix in with approx how much wax(can I use a standard candle with the wick removed?)? And does it have to be Nulon, or will any engine oil suffice?


Use Nulon engine additive, not engine oil. I assume people are using one of E10, E20 or E30 (E10 at a guess) because they contain PTFE.


Correct.

I use one of them. Can't remember which one. I was inspired by an American rider's recipe, using a PTFE additive that they have on their local market... so I just grabbed something that has PTFE in it.

As for proportions... the wax I get comes in round plastic take-away food containers. Looks like this:
Image
or this:
Image
...which says that it's 200g per serve. Should be about $3 each at your supermarket.

I added about 1/3 bottle of Nulon to that much wax.

It's all very approximate and make-it-up-as-you-go.

You'll need enough wax to submerge your chain - I'm not sure how big a candle you're proposing to melt down, but I can't imagine a candle being enough wax for the job.

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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby QuangVuong » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:40 pm

Yeah I had to use one and a half candles to get enough wax, that's around 100g together with about 30ml of Teflon gear oil. Looks like this
Image

After putting on 5km or so. Slightly black cause I must have not fully cleaned the chain beforehand.
Image

Image

And this is the leftover
Image

Seems like its doing its job so far. Quite quiet, and clean to touch, but will post later when I put more kms onto it.
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby MattyK » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:13 pm

Hmm, I'm going to have to steal one of the old histology tissue processors that I support and turn it into an automated chain degreaser and waxer... /ideasman

Maybe a hacked breadmaker would work too. (I already have a hacked breadmaker as a coffee roaster, but don't want to fill it with wax)

I'm not sure that engine oil additives are going to do anything for you. Read my links above, the real stuff is powder and you have to agitate it in. But without it seems to make SFA difference (unless you need that 0.25W gain...). Molybdenum lube should be readily available though.
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby barefoot » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:46 pm

MattyK wrote:Hmm, I'm going to have to steal one of the old histology tissue processors that I support and turn it into an automated chain degreaser and waxer... /ideasman


I don't bother degreasing any more. A bath of hot wax cleans my chain better than any other degreaser I've used. And once a chain is on to the wax program, it doesn't get very greasy anyway.

I'm not sure that engine oil additives are going to do anything for you. Read my links above, the real stuff is powder and you have to agitate it in. But without it seems to make SFA difference (unless you need that 0.25W gain...). Molybdenum lube should be readily available though.


Made a huge difference to me.

Pure wax (of the Fowlers variety as above) is quite brittle and flaky, and I left a trail of chain dandruff behind me on the first ride. I generally found I was due for a re-apply after about 200 km, especially if there was wet weather involved. This is on a singlespeed - the extra flex involved in a geared bike would probably shorten the application interval.

With the oil additive stuff, the wax is much softer. It doesn't flake off, and it seems to last considerably longer. Especially if I give it a very light dose of wet lube in between baths.The PTFE might be giving some advantage, or it could be the solvents.

I'm not looking for marginal power gains - I'm looking for low maintenance and cleanliness. I was waxing my SS commuter's chain for quite a long time before I dared try it on my "good" bikes.

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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby rheicel » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:12 pm

QuangVuong wrote:Seems like its doing its job so far. Quite quiet, and clean to touch, but will post later when I put more kms onto it.

You did a good job mate and you didn't even waste a single moment. Now how much are you going to charge a waxing job per chain?
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby sparco » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:59 am

barefoot wrote:
im_no_pro wrote:
QuangVuong wrote:How much Nulon did you mix in with approx how much wax(can I use a standard candle with the wick removed?)? And does it have to be Nulon, or will any engine oil suffice?


Use Nulon engine additive, not engine oil. I assume people are using one of E10, E20 or E30 (E10 at a guess) because they contain PTFE.


Correct.

I use one of them. Can't remember which one. I was inspired by an American rider's recipe, using a PTFE additive that they have on their local market... so I just grabbed something that has PTFE in it.

As for proportions... the wax I get comes in round plastic take-away food containers. Looks like this:
Image
or this:
Image
...which says that it's 200g per serve. Should be about $3 each at your supermarket.

I added about 1/3 bottle of Nulon to that much wax.

It's all very approximate and make-it-up-as-you-go.

You'll need enough wax to submerge your chain - I'm not sure how big a candle you're proposing to melt down, but I can't imagine a candle being enough wax for the job.

tim



Which supermarket and isle did you get this from? It is not coming up from Coles online.
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby barefoot » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:10 am

sparco wrote:
barefoot wrote:the wax I get comes in round plastic take-away food containers. Looks like this:
Image
...which says that it's 200g per serve. Should be about $3 each at your supermarket.

Which supermarket and isle did you get this from? It is not coming up from Coles online.


Ah, the million dollar question.

They seem to move it around the supermarket in a random manner.

I don't think they really know how to categorise it, and what stuff to put it with. Sometimes it's in the health food section, sometimes in the baking goods along with flour and sugar (and pectin and baking soda and citric acid and... paraffin wax, obviously).

I tend to wander aimlessly through the supermarket for several grocery trips until I see it, then I grab a few tubs of it to see me though until next time I find some. I have asked a worker before, and they had no idea at all - even after I found some and showed the same kid, he just looked blankly at me.

I usually get it at Coles, where I'm in the habit of grocery shopping, but I've sporadically seen it in Woolies and IGA and MaxiFoods before. Every time I see it I do a mental stocktake of whether I might need some soon, just in case they hide it again when I really do need some :lol:

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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby sparco » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:42 am

Thanks, will have a look later :)
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby Pedaling » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:04 pm

Speaking with a mate who his father used to lube his motorcycle chains the same way, before rubber O rings chains.
I would like to try this, although I am unsure as to breaking the chain all the time.
Does anybody have any tips on chain breaking,and more to the point, rejoining?
I am running 105 with a KMC chain, standard on a Giant TCR Advanced 2 (2013).

Cheers,

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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby im_no_pro » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:33 pm

Get a reusable joining link, id post a link but too hard to do on my phone just google 10sp link or similar
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby Pedaling » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:12 pm

Thanks for that Pro, appreciate it.

Cheers,
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby Philipthelam » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:46 pm

Pedaling wrote:Thanks for that Pro, appreciate it.

Cheers,
Darrin.


Wippermann connex link http://www.connexchain.com/Connectors/C ... 1_309.html
KMC missing link http://www.kmcchain.eu/?en/products/con ... ing_links/
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby ironhanglider » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:14 pm

Pedaling wrote:Speaking with a mate who his father used to lube his motorcycle chains the same way, before rubber O rings chains.
I would like to try this, although I am unsure as to breaking the chain all the time.
Does anybody have any tips on chain breaking,and more to the point, rejoining?
I am running 105 with a KMC chain, standard on a Giant TCR Advanced 2 (2013).

Cheers,

Darrin.


Apparently you already have a joining link.

BTW KMC links separate more easily if you squeeze the side plates together at the same time as pushing the two ends of the chain toward each other.

Cheers,

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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby Pedaling » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:25 pm

Thanks Cam,
Teaches me to be more observant next time.
Cheers,

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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby im_no_pro » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:11 pm

barefoot wrote:Ah, the million dollar question.

They seem to move it around the supermarket in a random manner.

I don't think they really know how to categorise it, and what stuff to put it with. Sometimes it's in the health food section, sometimes in the baking goods along with flour and sugar (and pectin and baking soda and citric acid and... paraffin wax, obviously).


Wandered aimlessly around woolies last night without success. With the baking goods is where I would have expected to find it because thats where the jam setta and the round cover thingies for your homemade preserves are kept (and thats what Fowlers Vacola market it for - homemade preserving). And no, im not a home preserving guru, I just used to work in a supermarket :P

If anyone gets desperate you can get it here. Not cheap though (compared to the price you have given) and no idea what shipping would be like.

Pedaling wrote:Thanks Cam,
Teaches me to be more observant next time.
Cheers,

Darrin.


You and me both :oops:
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby QuangVuong » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:46 pm

I dont see any at my Woolies. But theres an art store nearby thats also up in QLD and down in Vic that has it. 500g for $10
http://www.eckersleys.com.au/products/c ... raffin-wax

rheicel wrote:
QuangVuong wrote:Seems like its doing its job so far. Quite quiet, and clean to touch, but will post later when I put more kms onto it.

You did a good job mate and you didn't even waste a single moment. Now how much are you going to charge a waxing job per chain?

Drop over my place and you can try it out if you want.
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby jacks1071 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:14 pm

If anyone is having trouble finding the wax, go past a beauty salon and either ask them to sell you a few blocks or find out where they buy it from locally.

Has anyone found an Australian supplier for the teflon and graphite powder that friction facts recommend?

I did find some on ebay but it was an overseas supplier.
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:42 pm

Try your local generic hardware or keycutter type place for powdered graphite. "Lock lubricant".
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Re: Parafin Wax

Postby im_no_pro » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:57 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Try your local generic hardware or keycutter type place for powdered graphite. "Lock lubricant".


Super Cheap Auto sell it as well.
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