32 sprocket on campy groupset?

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32 sprocket on campy groupset?

Postby wombata » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:11 pm

Hi

I'm running 2011 super record 11sp on my bike with 50/34 front and an 11/29 rear (combo of sprockets from a 11/25 with some from a 12/29). Seems to have a 55mm cage (distance between jockey wheels?) on the back. It was put together by the local bike shop on purchase and gives a nice combo of upper and lower speeds whilst still shifting well.

I'm being asked by my mates (ha ha - great friends that they are....) to do the Fitz's and 3 Peaks over the next six to nine months. There's plenty of climbing in them with gradients well over 10% for extended periods. Wanting to protect my knees, and to improve my chances of finishing as I am well on the wrong side of 50, I'm thinking about ways to lower the gearing just a tad. With my current gearing, I can spin at 75rpm or so at 11kmh on 10% or less hills but once the gradient gets above this, I slow a lot and end up grinding away in the 60s rpm or lower. Being able to get back into the 70s rpm would be very nice. Or I could just htfu or course...

As going triple would involve changing shifters and probably front derailleur, and the 110bcd on the front means I can't go lower than a 34 ring, as campy don't go above 29 in 11 speed the only solution I can think that might be plausible is to put on a new (available in 4 weeks or so) 11/32 ultegra 6800 11sp cassette. While the guys at the lbs would put it all together for me for these specific events and switch me back to current for normal use, I was hoping people here might be able to help with suggestions.

- are the 11sp campy and shimano cassettes interchangeable? I know I would have the change the freehub to do this.
- will the current cage work in practice with an 11/32 on the rear? Do I need another cage? Should I then avoid the 50 front and 32 rear combo when riding?
- any other ideas to assist.

Thank you in advance.

Greg
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by BNA » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:44 pm

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Re: 32 sprocket on campy groupset?

Postby darkhorse75 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:44 pm

This is a picture of both cassettes side by side, spacing is very similar, but not quite the same.My guess is shifting would be OK but not quite perfect.Image
I think you would need a longer cage rear derailleur to run the 32t
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Re: 32 sprocket on campy groupset?

Postby rustychisel » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:19 pm

concur, 11 speed classettes can be made to play nicely together, but possibly with some mis-shifting in the upper mids. I've seen it done, but you'd definitely need a long cage rear derailleur for that amount of chain wrap.
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Re: 32 sprocket on campy groupset?

Postby boyracer » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:42 pm

I have a shimergo (Campy 10 shifters mated to shimano rear der' + freewheel + cluster) set up with 32 bottom gear. Sure it's 8 speed but the principle is the same...derailleur moves chain blah, blah.
I have a mid cage shimano rear mech with LARGER jockey wheels for more chain wrap. unsure of its model, but bottom end of the range.
I put this together for CX racing where a cheap/disposable derailleur is paramount.

I think you could use a MICHE single cog and make a 'frankencluster' lose the 11 to gain a 32. that might work. Then you'd be able to use your standard wheel/freehub.
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Re: 32 sprocket on campy groupset?

Postby spirito » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:36 am

boyracer wrote:

I think you could use a MICHE single cog and make a 'frankencluster' lose the 11 to gain a 32. that might work. Then you'd be able to use your standard wheel/freehub.


Theoretically you might be able do this ... and I've done similar with Shimano cassette's (using a 12-27 9 speed, taken off the 12t outer and replaced the 13t 2nd position cog with a 13t outer then added a single loose 30t cog on the other side to make a home spun 13-30 which worked with my short cage mech). But with all that torque especially in the lower gears there is a reason why the last 3 or 4 or 5 cogs are all bound together so as to distribute all the load over a wider area of the freehub and make it less likely to chew up or break. By adding a single cog on the back end where it will receive the greatest load it will promote quicker damage to the freehub and that's something I saw in practice. I haven't tried it with Campy as they're less likely to have loose cogs as spares that are readily available.

In my experience Miche is another word for Shi'ite (and I don't mean the religious persuasion) ... except for their track hubs and seat posts & headsets. Their cassette's are rubbish.

I don't like the idea of imprecise shifting by using different cogs (shimano-campagnlo) especially on a self supported out of town ride in steep terrain - too much possibility for a major frustration. And 11 speeds is already too tight for imprecision at the best of times imo. The best I could suggest is to use a J-Tek shift mate to mate a 12-30 Camp 10 speed cassette to your existing shifters and derailleur. Forget about 50 x 30t and maybe the next cog too as you're derailleur may not handle such an amount of wrap.

- or - using a different shiftmate to mate a Shimano 11-32 10 speed and using a shimano long cage derailleur with your 11 speed Campy shifters.

http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.php

Another thing to consider would be using an alternate crankset just for the event. I'd use an MTB crank but just the two outer rings and try to keep something of a modest Q factor.

If it were me I'd get some cleat covers and walk the parts I couldn't ride :mrgreen: :P
Cranky Jim wrote: God did not invent gears. Men invented gears ... because we are not gods.
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Re: 32 sprocket on campy groupset?

Postby wombata » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:27 pm

I think I understand the likely options a bit more now after a couple of the comments above which are appreciated, thank you.

I looked up the Miche site and there doesn't appear to be a 32 sprocket available, and I'm a little hesitant to run a single sprocket of that size without it being bound to nearby sprockets for the reasons explained above. Though it seems a good idea at face value and would save changing the freehub, it doesn't seem worth the risk.

On the assumption an 11sp Shimano cassette would provide satisfactory gear shifting - everything depends on this and there's really only one way to find out ie in practice - there's still the issue of chain wrap. Current wrap is 50-34+29-11=34 which is no issue at all on the existing set-up, chain wrap with an 11/32 rear would then be 50-34+32-11=37. I think I'm right in saying that if I do not use the combo of 50 front and 32 rear, my effective chain wrap would still be what it is now ie 50-34+29-11=34. I don't have an issue with not using the 50..32 combo as I hardly ever use the 29 rear at the moment when in the big ring on the front. I'm on the small ring well before that point in nearly every situation. I could easily accommodate this into my riding...If that works, I think that would also mean I don't need the J-Tek.

Re the quality of the shifting, would using a SRAM 11sp cassette be better match. They also make an 11/32.

The suggestion about taking cleat covers along with me is brilliant!! I certainly relate to this and will do that for sure... :lol:
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Re: 32 sprocket on campy groupset?

Postby boyracer » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:33 pm

Fair call Spiz'.
I only have miche track hubs to gauge quality and have never seen their cogs in the flesh.

OP says LBS will do the spannering. What about training runs and test weekends? i wouldnt want to be ripping my hub up every 2nd week.
What about strippping a shimano 32...even 34 bottom gear from a MTB cluster and having someone rivet it/ fasten to the campy? too thick for 11 chain? thinning should be achievable with a competent machine shop. Search Jesse Geisler.
Or ...make ten and sell 'em, why make one that costs a fortune!
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Re: 32 sprocket on campy groupset?

Postby spirito » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:32 pm

wombata wrote:I think I understand the likely options a bit more now ...


Weigh it all up and run it past the shop/mechanic that will be doing all the assembly and putting things together for you ... before you spend any coin. It's one thing hoping things will work and another thing knowing they will work. As mentioned you'll be doing some high climbing, remote and without a support crew so ideally it's best to play it safe.

Might be a perfect excuse for a new groupset ;)
Image
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Re: 32 sprocket on campy groupset?

Postby RonK » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:22 am

I think you are wasting your time - once you hit the steep grades your cadence is going to drop no matter how low your gearing.

Maintaining a high cadence in this situation requires a highly trained aerobic capacity.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
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