The big hammer and shifter thread

Workshop tales, trials and disasters.
Maintenance tips, techniques and myths.
Technical discussion, description and outright lies

The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:43 pm

This one's got me beat :oops:

A workmate asked me to have a go at resurrecting a hard rubbish MTBSO for his grandson.

No problems so far except getting the rusty as hell 6x cluster off the rear wheel.

A couple hours, most of a can of WD40, one removal tool with borked splines and three skinned knuckles later and the mongrel still refuses to move.

I'm open to any and all suggestions right up to the aforementioned heavy hitters if necessary.

Thanks in advance.

Shaun
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25544
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

by BNA » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:06 pm

BNA
 

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby mitzikatzi » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:06 pm

Visit Tip shop and buy a new wheel?

To remove a freewheel once. I found I needed to use a socket (23mm?) over the "free wheel removal socket" and a long handled tool (600mm long). This seemed to give more leverage than using a large shifter.

a rattle gun?
Xplora wrote: Do not get cheap SPDs, your body will hurt you.

trailgumby wrote:29ers are awesome.
User avatar
mitzikatzi
 
Posts: 1696
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:21 am
Location: Perth

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby QuangVuong » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:15 pm

Can you dismantle the freewheel? Use a 2 pin tool to unscrew the locking ring, you you should be able to remove the cogs. Itll leave the freewheel body still on the threads. From there you can chuck the freewheel body into a vice, and turn the wheel. Thats how I managed to get my freewheel off. You can rebuild the freewheel, but its likely stuffed(either youve lost too many bearings, or the vice has damaged the freewheel body).
80's Bundy
87 Kestrel 4000
88 Giant Cadex 980c
89 Centurion Carbon
89 Peugeot Carbon Pro
99 Kestrel 200 EMS

Image
User avatar
QuangVuong
 
Posts: 919
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:04 pm
Location: Villawood, Sydney

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby LG » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:17 pm

A good solid workshop vice, insert removal tool, clamp in vice, spin wheel = extra leverage.

If removal tool or the freewheel removal spline is knackered, there will be 2 pinholes on a bearing cover on the outside of the freewheel. Use a punch and tap these clockwise which will remove the outer bearing race. The outside half of the freewheel will now come off (with cogs attached), the inside half can be clamped in a vice and used as described above. Alternatively, a pipe wrench can be used on the remaining freewheel section (with added leverage) to unscrew it. I've had to do this a number of times, works a treat.

EDIT: Quang beat me by 2 minutes.
LG = Low Gear
LG
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:46 am
Location: Southeast Tasmania

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Duck! » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:33 pm

LG wrote:A good solid workshop vice, insert removal tool, clamp in vice, spin wheel = extra leverage.

+1 to this. If that doesn't work, probably nothing will.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
Duck!
Expert
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:27 pm

Didn't I mention taking it down to the maintenance shed at 0300 this morning? They have vices suitable for N class loco guts. :oops: I'm sure I mentioned the borked splines on my remover tool...

Looks like it's time to pull out the pin spanner in the morning. If that doesn't work, there might be a suitable wheel in the junkpile, not all the bikes Vinnies local send me are fit for getting into a safe, saleable condition. Not that they seem to get many these days :(

Thanks lads, keep it coming.

Shaun
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25544
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Duck! » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:42 pm

There was mention of the borked splines; I didn't deem it necessary to suggest the obvious in that a new tool may be a worthy investment. :wink:

Although not actually relevant here, it's worth noting for other players that cassettes & freewheels have slightly different splines. Cassette locknuts & the appropriate tool have a deeper spline than a freewheel. The cassette tool won't actually fit in a freewheel, hence not being relevant to this particular trouble.

Another idea that may be worth considering (with a tool in good shape) is with the setup previously mentioned, using a chainwhip a la cassette removal style, with a long pipe on the handle to gain more leverage. You may need an assistant to help keep the chainwhip in place.

Dismantling the cluster from its core isn't really going to achieve anything,'cos you'll still be left with the core of it stuck to the wheel, and that will be no easier to remove without the gears on it.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
Duck!
Expert
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:03 pm

Thanks Duck, I'll be hunting a new tool shortly. The splines were fine and had done dozens of freewheel clusters before last night. Grunt-click click click :(

I'm having trouble visualising how a chainwhip will help here tho'. Once again nice and slow with small words for the idiot please. :oops:

I WILL get this mongrel off even if I end up borking the hub using an angle grinder. From the feel of the bearings it might be beyond help anyway. Methinks the bike never saw the inside of a shed or any other form of cover in its life. *sigh*

Shaun
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25544
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:09 pm

Meh, replace the mechanic. From all the moaning it sounds like it's probably some cheap import crap. Probably English.
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves
User avatar
The 2nd Womble
 
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:14 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:Meh, replace the mechanic. From all the moaning it sounds like it's probably some cheap import crap. Probably English.

Watch yer mouth sport or I'll sling a nail stuffed praty at yer scone, not my fault me old man chose the Scots spelling to honour one of his footy team mates.

The Poms do do a nice saddle and steel tube tho'...
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25544
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Duck! » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:14 pm

Chainwhip trick: It's my preferred workshop method to have the tool in the vice virtually all the time, just drop the wheel on & unscrew. For a cassette, obvoiusly just turning the wheel won't work 'cos of the ratchets in the freehub, so you use the chainwhip to grab a sprocket (preferably the biggest one, for maximum contact area), and unscrew the cassette & wheel from the locknut. For correct orientation to unscrew, hold the handle of the whip in your right hand, and the chain end in your left and wrap it onto the sprocket that way. In normal situations it's not necessary on a freewheel cluster, because you can usually get enough leverage with the wheel itsef. But if you've got a really stuck bugger, the handle of the chainwhip will allow you to fit a really long pipe over it (considerably longer than the radius of the wheel) and therefore gain a heap more leverage.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
Duck!
Expert
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:19 pm

:idea: Thanks Duck, gotcha. :)
What's the betting both LBS will not have the tool in stock 'cos "Nobody has those anymore."?
Looks like Amazon might be the go...

Shaun
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25544
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:12 am

If it was me I would chuck the wheel and get another one from a BSO at the tip.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 6326
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby bychosis » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:46 am

I feel your pain. I made the mistake of delacing a pretzelled wheel BEFORE removing the freewheel. Won't do that again. All the parts ended up in the bin.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby LG » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:49 am

I'm having a bit of trouble visualising what Duck is suggests for the chainwhip, maybe I'm a bit thick :oops: . For an older screw on freewheel all a chainwhip does is spin the ratchet mechanism backwards, cassette lockring removal is a diferent matter...

If you pull a screw on freewheel apart and remove the outer half, it is correct the inner section is still stuck on the hub. It is mostly smooth steel and dificult to grip, but there are a couple notches where the pawls sit and a large set of stilsons usually engages on these quite well. A cheater bar can assist turning the stilsons anticlockwise for removal as required. If you still have the freewheel removal tool for use, you could also use this concurrently with the stilsons. If this won't get it off, its stuck.
LG = Low Gear
LG
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:46 am
Location: Southeast Tasmania

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Duck! » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:08 am

LG wrote:I'm having a bit of trouble visualising what Duck is suggests for the chainwhip, maybe I'm a bit thick :oops: . For an older screw on freewheel all a chainwhip does is spin the ratchet mechanism backwards, cassette lockring removal is a diferent matter...

Umm, yeah... Mental note, don't post technical stuff really late at night when the brain's gone a bit fuzzy. :oops: Scratch that suggesion, it will not work.
If you can't get enough leverage using the wheel as a spanner, then it's curtains.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
Duck!
Expert
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:53 am

All good, serviceable unit in the junkpile. I'm still gonna tear the brumby apart tho'. No way the bastige can be allowed to survive after the crap it's given me. The rim and spokes look fine so they will be put aside for future use.
Thanks again lads, appreciate the help.
Shaun.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25544
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby FuzzyDropbear » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:58 pm

LG wrote:A good solid workshop vice, insert removal tool, clamp in vice, spin wheel = extra leverage. ....


Yup, best method ever, we had to remove a mates cassette which had been on his bike for ages, vice + spinning wheel worked a treat. We were a bit cautious because we were pretty convinced we were going to snap a spoke :lol:
User avatar
FuzzyDropbear
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:55 pm
Location: Ballarat, VIC

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby coyote » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:20 pm

What the blokes in the Loco workshop did not get out the gas axe? :shock: First you heat, if that does not work, then you cut. 8) :evil: There would be only two out comes, either it comes apart or it dies a slow painfull death. :x :twisted:
User avatar
coyote
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:33 pm
Location: Cairns - Queensland

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:33 pm

coyote wrote:What the blokes in the Loco workshop did not get out the gas axe? :shock: First you heat, if that does not work, then you cut. 8) :evil: There would be only two out comes, either it comes apart or it dies a slow painfull death. :x :twisted:


Irish Johnny wanted to go in hard first but I told him it was last resort. Trust me, now I've got the junkpile unit fettled, the mongrels days are numbered... :twisted:
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25544
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Saturnstarzz » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:46 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
coyote wrote:What the blokes in the Loco workshop did not get out the gas axe? :shock: First you heat, if that does not work, then you cut. 8) :evil: There would be only two out comes, either it comes apart or it dies a slow painfull death. :x :twisted:


Irish Johnny wanted to go in hard first but I told him it was last resort. Trust me, now I've got the junkpile unit fettled, the mongrels days are numbered... :twisted:


If its 700c wheel I have Shimano Rs10 that has seized spoke nipple you can have Shaun not sure how you'd go with the cassette though.
Image
User avatar
Saturnstarzz
 
Posts: 252
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:52 pm

She's a 26" mate but thanks anyway.

The junkpile unit will do the trick, if I can get it round enough.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25544
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby LG » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:47 am

So, did your stuck unit die in the end?
LG = Low Gear
LG
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:46 am
Location: Southeast Tasmania

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:39 pm

I had a nice collection of small parts that would drive a Swiss watchmaker to tears (and one disc less for the angle grinder)
Happy to report that the mongrel died a slow and painful death.

Nearly finished, needed new balls for the BB and rear hub, new chain and cables but wasn't as bad as first look indicated.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25544
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: The big hammer and shifter thread

Postby Spiza » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:32 pm

Probably a left hand thread MB :lol: :wink:
Angle grinders are awesome! :mrgreen:
User avatar
Spiza
 
Posts: 1961
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:46 pm
Location: Castle Hill, NSW


Return to The Shed

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter