6700 GS max sproket

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6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:55 pm

I am interested in getting a 6700 medium cage derailleur if it will allow me to run a 32tooth rear sprocket as a bail out sprocket. The shimano site doesn't give specs on this derailleur for some reason :? but it does with the 105 equivalent.

5700 GS

Model Number RD-5700
Series 105
Cassette Compatibility 10-speed
Maximum Sprocket 28T
Minimum Sprocket 11T
Maximum Front Difference 16T
Total Capacity 39T



This is the same max sprocket listed for the short cage (ultegra is the same), just a slightly bigger total capacity

5700 SS

Model Number RD-5700
Series 105
Cassette Compatibility 10-speed
Maximum Sprocket 28T
Minimum Sprocket 11T
Maximum Front Difference 16T
Total Capacity 33T

I was hoping if I wound the b screw out a bit this derailleur would run the 32. Has anyone tried this or is there a MTB derailleur I can use?
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by BNA » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:07 pm

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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby Duck! » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:07 pm

Your specs there are correct, RD-5700 & 6700 have a max. sprocket of 28T. The longer cage of the GS version gives the greater chain wrap required to run a triple up front.

However! RD-5701 and RD6700-A have a 32T big sprocket capability, although even with a GS there's not enough wrap to handle a triple with the 32. You can run a SS with 32, but it is a bit sensitive to chainstay length in order to get just the right amount of tension in the small ring/small sprocket combo, and preferably not a compact crank (bigger front difference than a standard).

Side note: in general terms it's not the cage length that determines the max sprocket capability, it's the length of the upper body that does, 'cos that determines the clearance below the cassette. The cage length just wraps the "spare" chain that's required to cover the gear range. Obviously a triple has the increased range between its extremes, so a longer cage is needed to take all the slack.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:37 pm

Duck! wrote:Your specs there are correct, RD-5700 & 6700 have a max. sprocket of 28T. The longer cage of the GS version gives the greater chain wrap required to run a triple up front.

However! RD-5701 and RD6700-A have a 32T big sprocket capability, although even with a GS there's not enough wrap to handle a triple with the 32. You can run a SS with 32, but it is a bit sensitive to chainstay length in order to get just the right amount of tension in the small ring/small sprocket combo, and preferably not a compact crank (bigger front difference than a standard).

Side note: in general terms it's not the cage length that determines the max sprocket capability, it's the length of the upper body that does, 'cos that determines the clearance below the cassette. The cage length just wraps the "spare" chain that's required to cover the gear range. Obviously a triple has the increased range between its extremes, so a longer cage is needed to take all the slack.


Thanks Duck, I have a 130mm BCD crank with 53/39 and run a 28/11 sram cassette with a 6700 ss derailleur. It shifts well and I can climb everything I have come across with that gearing.
However I have decided to do the ACE250 and would like a bail out gear in case the legs are failing after high k's. The sram 12/32 looks good;
12-32: 12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32
Currently the chain is fairly tight on the 53-28 and not far off hitting the cage/upper jockey wheel on the 39-11. I know that cross chaining like that isn't ideal, and almost never run the 39-11 gear. The 53-28 does come in handy to stay in the big ring on some of the rolling hills and the final part of a climb following a false flat that I do regularly .
I cant see myself using the 53-32 but I dont think the short cage looks like it will handle the range.
It seems you are saying that either cage length will handle a 32 tooth rear sprocket? Will a medium cage derailleur handle it better or it matters not?
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby Duck! » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:49 pm

Officially-speaking from Shimano, you need the medium cage with the 32, but from experience it is possible to run a short. Probably safer with the medium though, 'cos it does have that extra length to give a bit of forgiveness in the chain.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:38 pm

No worries thanks, :)
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby scirocco » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:06 pm

warthog1 wrote:... or is there a MTB derailleur I can use?


If your bike has a short derailleur hanger it may be very hard to avoid the derailleur pulley hitting the 32 tooth cog, even if the chain wrap is okay, even with a medium cage RD. I have one bike where the only solution is a MTB derailleur. Shimano 9-speed MTB derailleurs have the correct ratio to work with 10-speed road shifters. This is kind of the standard method that is used by people who want to run 34 or 36 tooth rear cogs. For a 32 tooth you may get away with the road RD, can't do any harm to try it and see.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:41 pm

scirocco wrote:
If your bike has a short derailleur hanger it may be very hard to avoid the derailleur pulley hitting the 32 tooth cog, even if the chain wrap is okay, even with a medium cage RD. I have one bike where the only solution is a MTB derailleur. Shimano 9-speed MTB derailleurs have the correct ratio to work with 10-speed road shifters. This is kind of the standard method that is used by people who want to run 34 or 36 tooth rear cogs. For a 32 tooth you may get away with the road RD, can't do any harm to try it and see.



Thanks :)
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:52 pm

So depending on the S5's hanger length a 6700 derailleur will probably work with a 32t cassette, may not though.

Can I confirm that a 9sp Deore will work?

Image

It's cheaper anyway. :)
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby mitzikatzi » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:06 pm

Yes

I think you can get away with a "medium" cage on a standard road double set up. (52-39 = 13, 32-11=21, 21+13=34, GS is 35) but not a compact.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby scirocco » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:32 pm

warthog1 wrote:Can I confirm that a 9sp Deore will work?

It's cheaper anyway. :)


Yes, or alternatively CRC also carry the slightly lighter and higher spec Deore XT version, which is the one I have successfully used on a road bike with a 34T rear cog (for climbing stupidly long and steep mountains in Italy). Deore XT

Setup and adjustment was a bit more finicky than with the standard 6700 RD - it was hard to get it shifting sweetly at both ends of the cassette but it got there in the end.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:36 am

Thanks fellas. I'll try the 6700gs first. If that's no good I'll go the deore xt medium cage. Have to wait while the funds replenish a bit first though.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby Arlberg » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:42 pm

Just on a similar subject, I have a standard Shimano Ultegra 6770 deraileur (Di2) with a 12-25 cassette. I want to put an 11-28 on. Is this possible with this deraileur, and would I have to adjust anything else such the chain length etc? Will it shift as smoothly as the 12-25?
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby Duck! » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:46 pm

The 6770 derailleur is rated to a max sprocket of 28, so you'll have no trouble fitting that cassette with it. You should be OK as far as chain length, but that does depend on the method of measuring that was used to fit it and how much tolerance was allowed.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:56 pm

I have been thinking further on this and see that shimano do a 30-12 ultegra cassette:
12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30.
That looks like it will fit the bill nicely. Small steps and a 39-30 will be low enough.
This should almost certainly work with my 6700
SS derailleur if I put a new chain on 1 or 2 links longer at the same time:?:

Here is the derailleur in the 39/28 currently

Image

The b screw had a fair bit to go

Image
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby Duck! » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:14 pm

How close to maximum tension is the derailleur pulled when you're on 53-28? That'll give a bit of an indication as to if you need to lengthen the chain or not.

And on that note, it's not possible to lengthen a chain by one (or any odd number) link, because you'll end up with two ends the same and you won't be able to join it, unless that link is a "half-link" (stepped so it's half inner & half outer). You have to add minimum two links, one inner and one outer.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:23 pm

warthog1 wrote:I have been thinking further on this and see that shimano do a 30-12 ultegra cassette:
12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30.
That looks like it will fit the bill nicely. Small steps and a 39-30 will be low enough.
This should almost certainly work with my 6700
SS derailleur if I put a new chain on 1 or 2 links longer at the same time:?:

Here is the derailleur in the 39/28 currently

Image

The b screw had a fair bit to go

Image


It might work but make sure you don't try 53x30. Your Derailleur may have issues.
Image
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6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:35 pm

Oops, yep 2 links it is.

Chain looks pretty tight to me in the 53/28?

Image

Here is another shot that shows also where the b screw is at

Image

Does that look like it will run a 30-12 with a longer chain?
Here it is in the 39/11 which I never use.

Image

Looks like it will run out of range in that gear with a longer chain though? As long as it will run a 39/12 I'll be happy.
I guess a bit of b screw can take up a little slack at a pinch? Not that I have any experience there, just postulating.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby Duck! » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:09 pm

I reckon one pair of links will do the trick. After all, you're only increasing the overall chain wrap by one tooth/link - sure you've got a 2-tooth increase in the big sprocket, but you're getting some of it back by changing from the 11 to a 12 at the other end. Looking at the first pic, you're not going to get the 53/30 gear (which you should avoid anyway) without adding a little bit.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:19 pm

Duck! wrote:I reckon one pair of links will do the trick. After all, you're only increasing the overall chain wrap by one tooth/link - sure you've got a 2-tooth increase in the big sprocket, but you're getting some of it back by changing from the 11 to a 12 at the other end. Looking at the first pic, you're not going to get the 53/30 gear (which you should avoid anyway) without adding a little bit.


No worries, thanks.
I'm happy with that as a cheap way out. :)
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby biker jk » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:41 pm

A friend of mine fitted an Ultegra 12-30 cassette with no problem clearing the guide pulley. A chain length calculator suggests you may not need extra links (it suggests 54 links should be fine with 40.6cm chain stay length). Your picture of the derailleur cage in 53-28 also suggests you may not need extra links in the chain.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby Duck! » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:50 pm

I do this for a living.... I'd be putting two links in that.

Give it a clean too, will ya! :P
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:09 am

biker jk wrote:A friend of mine fitted an Ultegra 12-30 cassette with no problem clearing the guide pulley. A chain length calculator suggests you may not need extra links (it suggests 54 links should be fine with 40.6cm chain stay length). Your picture of the derailleur cage in 53-28 also suggests you may not need extra links in the chain.
.
Cheers :)
The chain in that pic has a few k km on it. I guess if I start longer with the replacement I can always shorten it if needed.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:15 am

Duck! wrote:
Give it a clean too, will ya! :P


I'm too lazy, I just wipe and relube and wipe again weekly.
I have used one of those chain cleaner goers in the past but it seemed to make the driveline rough and noisy until several lubes later. I reckon it washed all the lube out of the rollers and replaced it with solvent?
Think I used turps. Could have been the wrong stuff.
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby warthog1 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:01 pm

Finally got an ultegra 30-12 cassette and have since changed the chain for a new one lengthening it 2 links in the process.
30-12 runs fine, I didn't even need to touch the b screw on the original 6700 short cage derailleur :D
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Re: 6700 GS max sproket

Postby ball bearing » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:07 am

Has anyone managed to run 50/34 cranks with an Ultegra 6700A SS RD and a 12/32T cassette?
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