Filling aluminium.

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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby stevebaby » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:24 pm

OnTrackZeD wrote:"The posts were made from aluminium."

I've being thinking about this statement and I think I've work it out.

The post or Brake Bosses where screwed into their holder which is aluminum and welded onto the bike frame. So you cut off the welded brake boss mount.

Normally the best thing IMO would of been to undo the brake boss and insert a brake boss plug into the hole, job done.

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The intention was to remove the brake posts. Sticking a screw in them wouldn't accomplish that.
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by BNA » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:07 pm

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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:07 pm

Most people would just remove the silver bit and replace it with the black bit.

That leaves a reasonable look, without irrecoverable damage.

Too late now.

Cheers,

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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby KGB » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:31 am

stevebaby wrote:
OnTrackZeD wrote:"The posts were made from aluminium."

I've being thinking about this statement and I think I've work it out.

The post or Brake Bosses where screwed into their holder which is aluminum and welded onto the bike frame. So you cut off the welded brake boss mount.

Normally the best thing IMO would of been to undo the brake boss and insert a brake boss plug into the hole, job done.

Image
The intention was to remove the brake posts. Sticking a screw in them wouldn't accomplish that.


The "screw" doesn't go IN the brake posts, it goes IN PLACE of the brake posts. As stated above, thats what pretty much everyone does so they get a reasonably clean look without ruining a perfectly good frame.
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby Nate » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:14 am

depending on the allow - the whole frame would be heat treated AFTER its welded.
From memory....
- 6xxx series - requires heat treatment
- 7xxx series - does not require heat treatment

So even if you successfully welded - you'd have to heat treat the whole frame after most likely.

Finish it off & plug the holes neatly.
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:12 pm

I think the point is he has cut the alloy lugs off that the brake spigots screw into... cleaner looking fork. SO the only hole to plug is where there is either pitting / depression around where the weld was or that he was a bit rough with the hacksaw.
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby mick243 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:07 pm

toolonglegs wrote:I think the point is he has cut the alloy lugs off that the brake spigots screw into... cleaner looking fork. SO the only hole to plug is where there is either pitting / depression around where the weld was or that he was a bit rough with the hacksaw.

= stress risers in the alloy = rapid beginning to fatigue cracking.

I'd say time for a new fork, unless you like the idea of the front wheel parting company from the bike under heavy braking
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:30 pm

Depends... cutting a lug off and smoothing it nicely isn't going to cause a problem unless you are filling the fork itself. If there were depressions from the weld then they were always there.
Not a big lover of alloy here :D ... personally at least 10 frame failures... but my cheap arse RIbble is now doing me proud. Nearly 5 winters old!
PS...anyway it is all hypothesis with out actually seeing a photo
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby OnTrackZeD » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:45 pm

toolonglegs wrote:... cleaner looking fork.


When did the frame become the forks.
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:24 pm

Who knows!... who cares!!! :P
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby stevebaby » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:44 pm

It's done. I took it to a marine welder who put a small blob of weld on it. It took him about 5 minutes and another 5 minutes to smooth it with a file. I tried to photograph it but the pics didn't turn out too well.
The powder coater has it now.


PS. $20.:D
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby Nate » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:26 am

What aluminium is it?
does the whole fork have to be heat treated now to get the hardness back???

I wouldnt be riding it - the fork may actually be very soft & weak around that area now :(
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby Dragster1 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:15 pm

Nate wrote:What aluminium is it?
does the whole fork have to be heat treated now to get the hardness back???

I wouldnt be riding it - the fork may actually be very soft & weak around that area now :(

If you know what you are doing with that amount of weld it will not need heat treatment and its in the rear seat stay tubes
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby KGB » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:58 pm

Still want pics.
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby stevebaby » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:30 am

KGB wrote:Still want pics.

The frame will be covered with powder coat when I get it back so there won't be anything to see..
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby Ropecharmer » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:56 am

I realise I'm too late for this job, but JB Weld would be an excellent solution.
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:53 am

Stevebaby I think you are being far too stingy and have every chance of coming unstuck. And to then decide to then dismiss a service for the sake of $25 (the number of rods is irrelevant).

Revisit ldrcycles response. If it is just cosmetic than maybe he is suggesting the best track.

But if you are going to go ahead with welding or brazing, be aware that there are welders and there are coded welders. (Talking the occupation, not some piece of hardware.) This job IMO requires a coded welder because of the structural risks inherent in welding ally to steel. I imagine that a coded welder would not come cheap though even if he was interested to do the job.

Pls don't ever pass on the risks to some unsuspecting party by offloading it on ebay.
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby stevebaby » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:11 pm

Ropecharmer wrote:I realise I'm too late for this job, but JB Weld would be an excellent solution.
That would work if the frame was being painted (as would many other fillers) but it's being powder coated and it would melt in the curing oven. JB Weld is an epoxy.
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby stevebaby » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:26 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Stevebaby I think you are being far too stingy and have every chance of coming unstuck. And to then decide to then dismiss a service for the sake of $25 (the number of rods is irrelevant).

Revisit ldrcycles response. If it is just cosmetic than maybe he is suggesting the best track.

But if you are going to go ahead with welding or brazing, be aware that there are welders and there are coded welders. (Talking the occupation, not some piece of hardware.) This job IMO requires a coded welder because of the structural risks inherent in welding ally to steel. I imagine that a coded welder would not come cheap though even if he was interested to do the job.

Pls don't ever pass on the risks to some unsuspecting party by offloading it on ebay.
Who's welding aluminium to steel? Who even mentioned such a thing, except you?
The welder who did the job has been welding aluminium and stainless steel for 40 years. He used to work for Hawker de Havilland welding aircraft parts and the RN and RAN. He's worked on some very expensive racing boats and he has a very good reputation. I trust his judgement, and his judgement was that it was a simple job and it didn't require heat treating the whole frame or any heat treating at all.
I have no intention of selling the frame nor have I ever mentioned anything about selling it. It's served me well for 8 years and I intend to get at least another 8 years out of it.
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby KGB » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Confusion abounds.
Frames vs forks, aluminium vs steel, what part was being removed/unscrewed/ground off.

Looks like its all but done now anyway. Hope it turns out well and you do get plenty more years from the frame.
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby Ropecharmer » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:17 pm

stevebaby wrote:That would work if the frame was being painted (as would many other fillers) but it's being powder coated and it would melt in the curing oven. JB Weld is an epoxy.


There's an engineering spec sheet available at that link.

:wink:
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby Dragster1 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:16 pm

stevebaby wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:Stevebaby I think you are being far too stingy and have every chance of coming unstuck. And to then decide to then dismiss a service for the sake of $25 (the number of rods is irrelevant).

Revisit ldrcycles response. If it is just cosmetic than maybe he is suggesting the best track.

But if you are going to go ahead with welding or brazing, be aware that there are welders and there are coded welders. (Talking the occupation, not some piece of hardware.) This job IMO requires a coded welder because of the structural risks inherent in welding ally to steel. I imagine that a coded welder would not come cheap though even if he was interested to do the job.

Pls don't ever pass on the risks to some unsuspecting party by offloading it on ebay.
Who's welding aluminium to steel? Who even mentioned such a thing, except you?
The welder who did the job has been welding aluminium and stainless steel for 40 years. He used to work for Hawker de Havilland welding aircraft parts and the RN and RAN. He's worked on some very expensive racing boats and he has a very good reputation. I trust his judgement, and his judgement was that it was a simple job and it didn't require heat treating the whole frame or any heat treating at all.
I have no intention of selling the frame nor have I ever mentioned anything about selling it. It's served me well for 8 years and I intend to get at least another 8 years out of it.

The frame will be fine mate if anything it will be stronger because you have filled the holes up that were in the frame all along. If he only needed to do a light file after he welded, he would of put bugger all heat into it 8) I am still wondering how people turn frame into forks :shock: no wonder there is so many blews around here, with this type of misunderstanding :shock:
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:57 pm

stevebaby wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:Stevebaby I think you are being far too stingy and have every chance of coming unstuck. And to then decide to then dismiss a service for the sake of $25 (the number of rods is irrelevant).

Revisit ldrcycles response. If it is just cosmetic than maybe he is suggesting the best track.

But if you are going to go ahead with welding or brazing, be aware that there are welders and there are coded welders. (Talking the occupation, not some piece of hardware.) This job IMO requires a coded welder because of the structural risks inherent in welding ally to steel. I imagine that a coded welder would not come cheap though even if he was interested to do the job.

Pls don't ever pass on the risks to some unsuspecting party by offloading it on ebay.
Who's welding aluminium to steel? Who even mentioned such a thing, except you?
The welder who did the job has been welding aluminium and stainless steel for 40 years. He used to work for Hawker de Havilland welding aircraft parts and the RN and RAN. He's worked on some very expensive racing boats and he has a very good reputation. I trust his judgement, and his judgement was that it was a simple job and it didn't require heat treating the whole frame or any heat treating at all.
I have no intention of selling the frame nor have I ever mentioned anything about selling it. It's served me well for 8 years and I intend to get at least another 8 years out of it.

I seem to have annoyed you. Sorry.

From what you say about the guy he probably is a coded welder. (They're about the only industries that can afford them.) And if so and he is willing to do the job then that is the strongest case for it working.

I am glad that you aren't gonna pass it on. Many would.

(For the record, my slack use of the term as a coded welder as used in common vernacular. It refers to one who has passed the necessary skills testing for work like marine and aerospace though, semantically, it can be less than that.)
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby stevebaby » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:48 pm

Not annoyed Colin...mystified! How did my frame turn into a fork? How many times did I have to say epoxy wasn't going to work?
I was starting to doubt my own sanity. For a while there, I thought I must have run over some timey-wimey thing on the bike path, and been teleported to Bike Forums!:D
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby eeksll » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:34 pm

stevebaby wrote:Not annoyed Colin...mystified! How did my frame turn into a fork? How many times did I have to say epoxy wasn't going to work?
I was starting to doubt my own sanity. For a while there, I thought I must have run over some timey-wimey thing on the bike path, and been teleported to Bike Forums!:D


I think alot of people don't read posts properly before replying and some don't read the entire thread, but thats what happens with free help :wink: help others to help you e.g pics/photos. Frame would never been turned into a fork with photos. Although I don't think that distinction would have made any difference here.
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Re: Filling aluminium.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:14 am

stevebaby wrote:Not annoyed Colin...mystified! How did my frame turn into a fork? How many times did I have to say epoxy wasn't going to work?
I was starting to doubt my own sanity. For a while there, I thought I must have run over some timey-wimey thing on the bike path, and been teleported to Bike Forums!:D

Dunno where I got that. Old age? Tired?
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I got it! My cycle ARE my forks and that's my mindset. :mrgreen: .
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