Tubulars for racing.

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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:48 pm

march83 wrote:OP, i did my first set of vittorias a few weeks ago and i wasn't impressed with my first efforts so i removed and re-did them. i had a similar experience with glue peeling easily from the tyre but adhering to the rim. I had lots of dry joints which I haven't had a problem with before which made me think that either the tyre was contaminated or it was just super thirsty so there wasn't much glue left near the surface to adhere once the tyre was mounted. in the end, i just cleaned the rims thoroughly, put 2 coats on both the tyre and the rim then wet glued them. next vittorias will get a gentle clean, probably just with water, before stretching and gluing.

@Causidicus: where are you buying your mastik? i can't seem to find the tins ANYWHERE!


Gave the tyres a second coat tonight and gave the rims one coat.

Slightly enlarged the valve hole and had a few seating attempts before adding glue to the rim, feeling happier with it now, tyres fitted nice and easy now they have been stretched more.

I'll probably give the rim another coat in the morning and then maybe mount them tomorrow evening with a final coat on the tyres, give them 48hrs to dry then see how they are Friday for a test ride.
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by BNA » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:43 pm

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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:43 pm

Here's one thing I do.

After the inflation, straightening part, I let all the air out and press the tyre and rim onto a broom handle. (I have one that is a close match to the curve of the rim bed). When I feel like I've squashed the tyre onto the rim enough, then I inflate the tyre to leave it for 24 hours or more before using.

Not sure if this ritual is simply the equivalent of an incantation or not but it works for me. I certainly have a hard time removing tyres after a puncture.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:59 pm

Its normally not that difficult??

I don't know why your glue just peeled of like that. Strange. Haven't done a full glue job for years but if I remember correctly, a couple of coats, a quick still wet one and whack the tyre on.

Stuck, inflate and solid in the morning.

Some of these posts are making it sound like some Jedi trick!

Hope you get it sorted quickly.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:25 pm

softy wrote:Its normally not that difficult??

I don't know why your glue just peeled of like that. Strange. Haven't done a full glue job for years but if I remember correctly, a couple of coats, a quick still wet one and whack the tyre on.

Stuck, inflate and solid in the morning.

Some of these posts are making it sound like some Jedi trick!

Hope you get it sorted quickly.

I think it's a little more difificult getting a good bond to carbon.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:17 pm

Glued up now, I was happier with how they went, easier to manipulate into place as I've been stretching them for longer.

With any luck the glue will take to the carbon and won't just peel straight off tomorrow!
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:39 am

They have had 24hrs now, checked the glue job. Lot better than before, but I had maybe 10% of the rim that didn't have a good joint on one side, it seemed to be stuck in the middle but not on the wall of the rim.

Rolled the tyre back and brushed some more cement on rather than wrestle with the tyre to remove it as I feel it's stuck well on the remainder.


Edit: Checked after work now they have had another 10 hrs to dry. Seem rock solid all the way round, not the prettiest gluing it certainly won't win any competitions but I feel confident they are stuck on!
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Thoglette » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:34 am

Tarquin wrote:Checked after work now they have had another 10 hrs to dry. Seem rock solid all the way round, not the prettiest gluing it certainly won't win any competitions but I feel confident they are stuck on!


Well done! Gluing is pretty easy but having confidence in the result is the important bit.
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Postby Causidicus » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:12 pm

@march83

I stock up when it's available and buy multiple boxes of tubes at a time. Last time Cell had some I cleaned them out.

I don't use the tins. Too much mess and trouble. The tubes are far more efficient and far less messy.
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Re:

Postby softy » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:46 pm

Causidicus wrote:@march83

I stock up when it's available and buy multiple boxes of tubes at a time. Last time Cell had some I cleaned them out.

I don't use the tins. Too much mess and trouble. The tubes are far more efficient and far less messy.


Methinks this goes with anything tubular;
Tyres
Tape
Glue
Valve extensions
Etc

LBSs are just unreliable for tub stuff. Got catch without tub tape which I bought locally. Went back, no stock and nowhere had it. Always keep a few in stock, incase you have a run of flats. That dam Murphy pops up his head when you least expect it! :roll:
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Causidicus » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:02 pm

Tarquin wrote:Slightly enlarged the valve hole...

I trim the base tape near the valve with a scalpel. Essentially, I profile it so that it matches the rest of the tyre. There's no loss of integrity, a better bond to the tape in the area, no hump at the valve and definitely no need to enlarge any valve hole with this method.

softy wrote:LBSs are just unreliable for tub stuff.

Yep, and hence why I keep all that you mention (except tape, which I will not use, ever) plus acid brushes in ample supply at all times. However, the brushes need 4-5mm trimmed off before they are perfect for use, though. You need a bit of stiffness in the bristles to be able to work the glue around and keep the coats thin. Too soft a bristle and all you do is spread glue leaving the coats too thick (and weak).
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:23 pm

Causidicus wrote: a bit of stiffness in the bristles to be able to work the glue around and keep the coats thin. Too soft a bristle and all you do is spread glue leaving the coats too thick (and weak).


An old toothbrush works good too.
8) l like my tape. :D
I seem to just keep collecting stuff!

I think I now have more tubular tyres in my house than any perth bike shop! :P
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Postby Causidicus » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:56 pm

Never tried a toothbrush. I use one acid brush per layer and then toss it. They are useless after that unless you strip the bristles in turps and that introduces problems you don't want or need. Acid brushes are cheap. Use and dispose. That's what they are for.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:13 pm

Just a report back on the YJs.
Really impressed with these tyres!

Have bought a stack, they get cheaper with bigger orders.

At under $30 oz they are good to toss if you get a puncture. Running some at the moment and are pretty good for a cheapy everyday tyre. The rubber doesn't seem as tacky as the iso vittoria, time will tell if they like the Perth sandy conditions, but so far so good. Seem reasonably made. They may say 21.5mm but they do look bigger than that in the flesh.

:)
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby ironhanglider » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:25 pm

softy wrote:Just a report back on the YJs.
Really impressed with these tyres!

Have bought a stack, they get cheaper with bigger orders.

At under $30 oz they are good to toss if you get a puncture. Running some at the moment and are pretty good for a cheapy everyday tyre. The rubber doesn't seem as tacky as the iso vittoria, time will tell if they like the Perth sandy conditions, but so far so good. Seem reasonably made. They may say 21.5mm but they do look bigger than that in the flesh.

:)


They are also one of the easiest tubulars to repair too. 8)

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:34 pm

Still on the look out for some Mastik but seems as rare as hens teeth.

Just riding the tubs on the weekend so will be second time out tomorrow/Saturday.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby warthog1 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:53 pm

Are vittoria corsa evo ks tyres no more?


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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:34 pm

Tarquin wrote:Still on the look out for some Mastik but seems as rare as hens teeth.

Just riding the tubs on the weekend so will be second time out tomorrow/Saturday.

Westernbikeworks have some (usa so postage will be a stinger)
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:22 pm

softy wrote:
Tarquin wrote:Still on the look out for some Mastik but seems as rare as hens teeth.

Just riding the tubs on the weekend so will be second time out tomorrow/Saturday.

Westernbikeworks have some (usa so postage will be a stinger)


If they will post it, nowhere in England will anymore.... :idea:
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:24 pm

Tarquin wrote:
softy wrote:
Tarquin wrote:Still on the look out for some Mastik but seems as rare as hens teeth.

Just riding the tubs on the weekend so will be second time out tomorrow/Saturday.

Westernbikeworks have some (usa so postage will be a stinger)


If they will post it, nowhere in England will anymore.... :idea:


Maybe down to it been flammable?.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:38 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
Maybe down to it been flammable?.


That's the reason given, but so are lots of things on planes! Who knows I don't make the rules!

Had 4 rides on them now, the ride quality was noticeable better than clinchers today last week the weather was terrible and yesterday I was too cold to notice, and once you get over 40-45kmh they cut through the air very nicely.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Boo, after doing 6000km on my clinchers.

I flat a tubular only maybe 5th or 6th time out. Glass or something cut straight through the casing and made a small hole in the tub, not sure when it happened, but I was able to do my race and ride home on it.

Sucks that I possibly need a new tyre now.

I removed them both from the wheels, the glue came off the rear quite easy but the front was stuck well. I think the Conti glue is just junk as I followed the instructions exactly twice now and it just doesn't stick even after roughing up both rim and the tape and is quite brittle.

Going to have the LBS glue them up for me and hoping that he can bung some sealant in the cut one rather than use my spare tyre on there.

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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:50 pm

Tarquin wrote:Boo, after doing 6000km on my clinchers.

I flat a tubular only maybe 5th or 6th time out. Glass or something cut straight through the casing and made a small hole in the tub, not sure when it happened, but I was able to do my race and ride home on it.

Sucks that I possibly need a new tyre now.

I removed them both from the wheels, the glue came off the rear quite easy but the front was stuck well. I think the Conti glue is just junk as I followed the instructions exactly twice now and it just doesn't stick even after roughing up both rim and the tape and is quite brittle.

Going to have the LBS glue them up for me and hoping that he can bung some sealant in the cut one rather than use my spare tyre on there.

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You have to remember that the glue is not a permenant bond like super glue. It's is supposed to stay tacky. If your tyre didn't roll off during a race the bond is obviously fine.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:06 pm

I know we have had this disscussion before,

But I don't have good luck with vittoria sc evos, either tubulars or clinchers (which these look like), conti comps are a lot tougher but don't give the same ride.
I am having a good run with veloflex arenberg and roubaix. I am trying the yellow jersy ones at the moment. At less than $30 bucks my eyes don't shed tears with a puncture.

I do suggest tape and glue if you want a super stick bond, only problem is this makes them tough to get off on the side of the road. Put glue on tyre and rim, let dry, put tape on then fit tyre as per tape instructions. The bond is really strong. The only negative is, data has shown tape can create a slightly lower rolling resistance.

I use tubulars exculsively, once you get use to them they are great. A tubular/clincher are just as equally prone to punctures excluding pinch flats.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:46 pm

softy wrote:I know we have had this disscussion before,

But I don't have good luck with vittoria sc evos, either tubulars or clinchers (which these look like), conti comps are a lot tougher but don't give the same ride.
I am having a good run with veloflex arenberg and roubaix. I am trying the yellow jersy ones at the moment. At less than $30 bucks my eyes don't shed tears with a puncture.

I do suggest tape and glue if you want a super stick bond, only problem is this makes them tough to get off on the side of the road. Put glue on tyre and rim, let dry, put tape on then fit tyre as per tape instructions. The bond is really strong. The only negative is, data has shown tape can create a slightly lower rolling resistance.

I use tubulars exculsively, once you get use to them they are great. A tubular/clincher are just as equally prone to punctures excluding pinch flats.


My tyres didn't roll during a race, but I didn't push it too hard on them, just road racing no Crits.

They are the Corsa CX.

Just bad luck with the puncture I think. I ended up riding back from the race in the "bike lane"'rather than the road as we were in a bunch and I had the inside. More crap there so could have come from that, or just being plain unlucky. I used Bontrager R3 as a training tyre which have a few cuts but not flatted with them.

Now comes the horrible job of cleaning the rims up and the tape.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:36 pm

This thread reminded me of a set of singles I had taped with Velox tape over a year ago. This is the first time I have used tape. I never got round to riding them but I tried removing them tonight and I couldn't with just my hands.
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