Tubulars for racing.

Workshop tales, trials and disasters.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby ironhanglider » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:43 pm

Tarquin wrote:Boo, after doing 6000km on my clinchers.

I flat a tubular only maybe 5th or 6th time out. Glass or something cut straight through the casing and made a small hole in the tub, not sure when it happened, but I was able to do my race and ride home on it.

Sucks that I possibly need a new tyre now.

I removed them both from the wheels, the glue came off the rear quite easy but the front was stuck well. I think the Conti glue is just junk as I followed the instructions exactly twice now and it just doesn't stick even after roughing up both rim and the tape and is quite brittle.

Going to have the LBS glue them up for me and hoping that he can bung some sealant in the cut one rather than use my spare tyre on there.


Err, didn't you buy the tyres from Wiggle because your LBS doesn't stock tubulars? If so why would they be any good at fitting something they don't stock (or sell many of)? Bunging sealant in is hardly a difficult process.

My suggestion is to put the tyre back on the rim (without glue), put some sealant in, pump it up to pressure and go for a ride. If the sealant holds, then glue it back on.

Cheers,

Cameron
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by BNA » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:46 pm

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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby ironhanglider » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:46 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:This thread reminded me of a set of singles I had taped with Velox tape over a year ago. This is the first time I have used tape. I never got round to riding them but I tried removing them tonight and I couldn't with just my hands.


My last experience of Velox tape was in the 80's. I had a puncture on one that had been on for over a year and it was not held on by much more than air pressure. Fortunately it seems that it has improved over that time.
I still prefer glue.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:12 pm

Looking at those photos the glue shouldn't peel off the backing tape so easy.

I would try putting it on a bit thicker and using a hard toothbrush, use enough glue to work the wet glue into the material of the backing tape (sort of soaks in). Of course the rims will not soak and will peel on removal, but give that a try.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:12 am

ironhanglider wrote:
Tarquin wrote:Boo, after doing 6000km on my clinchers.

I flat a tubular only maybe 5th or 6th time out. Glass or something cut straight through the casing and made a small hole in the tub, not sure when it happened, but I was able to do my race and ride home on it.

Sucks that I possibly need a new tyre now.

I removed them both from the wheels, the glue came off the rear quite easy but the front was stuck well. I think the Conti glue is just junk as I followed the instructions exactly twice now and it just doesn't stick even after roughing up both rim and the tape and is quite brittle.

Going to have the LBS glue them up for me and hoping that he can bung some sealant in the cut one rather than use my spare tyre on there.


Err, didn't you buy the tyres from Wiggle because your LBS doesn't stock tubulars? If so why would they be any good at fitting something they don't stock (or sell many of)? Bunging sealant in is hardly a difficult process.

My suggestion is to put the tyre back on the rim (without glue), put some sealant in, pump it up to pressure and go for a ride. If the sealant holds, then glue it back on.

Cheers,

Cameron


I bought the tyres from wiggle/bike bug and tried it myself before going to the LBS.

Firstly because I like to know how to do things myself, I have my own tools and bike stand, and secondly stuff is two or three times the price at the LBS.

I know it's a vicious circle with people buying online but what can you do? I spend money there occasionally, maybe 400-500 over the past two years, but the range and quick delivery online wins hands down. Chances are the LBS would have to order anyway.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:32 am

softy wrote:Looking at those photos the glue shouldn't peel off the backing tape so easy.

I would try putting it on a bit thicker and using a hard toothbrush, use enough glue to work the wet glue into the material of the backing tape (sort of soaks in). Of course the rims will not soak and will peel on removal, but give that a try.

I read this the other day as way to ensure you get some glue into your backing tape.

http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/bl ... e-rim.html

You will however note he is using Mastik. And do not suggest you do the tyre over the shoulder strech thing.
Image
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:38 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:
softy wrote:Looking at those photos the glue shouldn't peel off the backing tape so easy.

I would try putting it on a bit thicker and using a hard toothbrush, use enough glue to work the wet glue into the material of the backing tape (sort of soaks in). Of course the rims will not soak and will peel on removal, but give that a try.

I read this the other day as way to ensure you get some glue into your backing tape.

http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/bl ... e-rim.html

You will however note he is using Mastik. And do not suggest you do the tyre over the shoulder strech thing.


SSScott is right,
Don't stretch any tyre unless you do it on a rim, all those fancy foot arm things?? You'll just give yourself an injury, and most modern tyres will not stretch like this (maybe a veloflex might).

Even pumping it up off a rim I wouldn't recommend, it puts alot of stress on the casing. I have read these antidotes on a few sites. But don't do it.

Just use an old rim (clincher rims work to) for a week is good, if you have the time, especially if they are conti comps.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Causidicus » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:34 pm

Tarquin wrote:Image

Image

Crap glue. Old glue. Bad batch. Whatever. Just bad. Possibly bad glue job but gluing isn't rocket science.

Never seen anything like that with Mastik. Ever. Never had a problem with a solid bond to carbon, either.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:31 pm

4 tubes of Mastik on their way from XLR8 wheels. I don't want to roll a tyre and crash or worse cause someone else to crash.

I've rebuilt car gearboxes and worked on drill rigs so I don't have two left hands, I can glue a tyre to a wheel following some basic instructions.... or so I thought!
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Thoglette » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:48 pm

Tarquin wrote:I can glue a tyre to a wheel following some basic instructions.... or so I thought!


Bad glue. I have tyres I glued on years ago which are still good (I know, bad form but it's still true)
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Causidicus » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:51 pm

Tarquin wrote:I think the Conti glue is just junk as I followed the instructions exactly twice now and it just doesn't stick even after roughing up both rim and the tape and is quite brittle.

I think what you have is an old or bad batch. Conti glue flashes off too fast/dries too much for my liking. That said, what you're experiencing is outside of normal bounds. Conti glue can work just fine, and it's easy to get.

I prefer and will always use Mastik. That said, I have glued for people that have expressly stated they want to use Conti (and they supplied the glue for the job). They haven't rolled a tyre nor had a complaint about the glue job. So, I suspect Conti glue isn't the devil, per se.

I think Mastik is a better choice in the long term but I also think you are simply having a run of bad luck exacerbated by poor/old glue. I don't think your technique is bad (you should apply more layers to the bare rim, though).

Go to Repco/Supercheap and buy a can of Acetone. Use it to clean off the bare rim and any glue trails. It's good stuff. Relatively cheap, too. Nevertheless, I clean all bare rims in the stuff before applying any glue. It's useless for cleaning a rim bed of glue. Use turps or diesel for that.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:57 pm

I completely cleaned up the rims last week using acetone and elbow grease.

Started to reglue with mastik tonight.

So much easier to work with, it's a lot easier to get a thin layer as it doesn't dry so quickly, will have them finished Tuesday probably then ride Thursday or Friday depending on weather.

Edit:two layers on the wheels and the tubs now. Got the tubs stretching a bit more after applying glue incase they have shrunk.

Third layer on rims tomorrow night and then mount up maybe, unless it's worth doing more coats as the rims were bare when I started?
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:32 pm

Sounds like you are on your way to enjoying your tubs,

Just love tubs, I feel alot safer on them, I always think, what if I had a blow out at speed on clichers, your on the carbon or ally rim straight away, no grip and no steering. A tubular is stuck to the rim, you will always have rubber underneath your wheel, so you have control to slow down.

Something nostalgic about tubulars. :)
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:52 pm

Glued up now, was a doddle using Mastik One just following the steps as described everywhere, two on tyres and three on rim I went for.

Will check them after 24 hrs but happy with how it went, there was actually some "stick" when I came to centre the tyre on the rim and it was pretty straight forward to centre on the rim.

One tub wasn't sticking perfectly around the valve but after inflating, rolling it, pressing the rim down onto the valve and then inflating to 150psi it seemed to seat properly.

Put some stans in my punctures tub that I mounted on a spare rim, it's sealed up I think but has a very slight bulge where it's cut. I'll post a photo up so you guys can see what you think.
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Postby Causidicus » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:19 pm

Tarquin wrote:...two on tyres and three on rim I went for.

I would have used five layers for the bare rim but I don't think three is insufficient. You have experienced one of the minor joys of Mastik - the longer work time.

My final layer on the rim is a fraction heavier than previous coats and is the layer I put on immediately before putting the tyre on. i.e. the tyre goes on when the coat is 'wet'. For final application, some people say coat the tyre. Some say coat the rim. I coat the rim. I think it's easier.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:45 am

Solid as a rock glue job.

Good for 81kmh on a twisty downhill yesterday when racing.

So good to race on these wheels, so light, aero and the ride is great. :D
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:56 am

Tarquin wrote:Solid as a rock glue job.

Good for 81kmh on a twisty downhill yesterday when racing.

So good to race on these wheels, so light, aero and the ride is great. :D


Welcome to the world of tubulars :D
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Postby Causidicus » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:14 pm

Good to hear you're now happy with the tubular glue job can get back to worrying about real things like power, heart rate, cadence, speed and ultimately riding that bicycle as quickly as possible.
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Re:

Postby softy » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:08 pm

Causidicus wrote:Good to hear you're now happy with the tubular glue job can get back to worrying about real things like power, heart rate, cadence, speed and ultimately riding that bicycle as quickly as possible.



Yeah but don't tubulars make you twice as fast? :P
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Postby Causidicus » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:58 pm

I wish they did. Unfortunately, legs beat tyres.
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