Roadies with disc brakes

Workshop tales, trials and disasters.
Maintenance tips, techniques and myths.
Technical discussion, description and outright lies

Roadies with disc brakes

Postby CKinnard » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:08 pm

I am looking at buying a CX or enduro road bike. I've never had disc brakes before, and am wondering how finicky and expensive they are to maintain. I don't look to be bashing the bike around, just sticking to gravel and tarmac.

Also, some sales people are trying to talk me into hydraulic disc brakes.
I'd appreciate any advice, experience with these.

Personally, I'd be happy with centre pulls, but it seems a lot of the newer cx's are going disc.

The feature I'm looking for in particular is wider wheels and tires (max of at least 35mm width), and capacity for a rear rack or towing a small trailer to the shops. Presume this means a carbon frame would not be appropriate.

I'd probably buy a more relaxed geometry roadie if it could take 35mm's.
I'm basically sick of getting flats and think the beefier tires might make a diff, and also would like to have more reliable grip in the wet and on rubbish roads.

Can wider tires provide this on tarmac? :)
CKinnard
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

by BNA » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:26 pm

BNA
 

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby Calvin27 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:26 pm

Specialized Sectuer range have are pretty much relaxed geometry roadies with disc. I've fit 38c in there before. Currently running 28c though and I think that is a sweet spot for me.
Specialized Secteur Expert
Kona Hei Hei DL
Calvin27
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby Duck! » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:17 pm

CKinnard wrote:I am looking at buying a CX or enduro road bike. I've never had disc brakes before, and am wondering how finicky and expensive they are to maintain.

They're not. Cable discs need periodic manual adjustment to compensate for pad wear, either by an allen key or integrated dial depending on model to wind in the inboard stationary pad in, and the barrel adjuster to tweak the "active" pad. Hydraulics are even easier - they do it themselves. Pads cost a little more than rim brake pads, but last considerably longer (=> cheaper in the greater scheme of things).
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
Duck!
Expert
 
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby JBark » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:07 pm

Yeah, I find the cable discs on my CX commuter far easier to maintain that the cantis on my old MTB. I adjust the pads for wear a couple times per year, replace the pads maybe once a year or so, and that's it. My bike gets jammed into a old style bike rack 5 days as week, with the brake rotor pushed right up against the rack supports, and I haven't had to adjust the rotor since I got the bike over 2 years ago.

And the best part, no more forgetting to reattach the brakes when you've taken the tire off! :)
JBark
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:42 pm
Location: Bertram, WA

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:00 pm

From my experience with MTBs, disc pads cost nearly twice as much and have a life that can sometimes be measured in minutes. And yes i have used V brakes in the exact same conditions as discs and found the V brakes much better in every respect. But that's more about my hatred of discs than the OP's question so i won't carry on about that.

So on that, given with wide tyres if your choice is limited to cantis or discs then discs would be the better bet, as cantis can be a real pain to adjust.

Fatter tyres will definitely make a huge difference to the number of punctures you get, the reason there are so many 700x23 tyres out there with Kevlar this and magic whatever else is because they are just too small to have an appropriate amount of rubber for real world conditions. Look at the 27" tyres that were the norm before the industry shifted to 700C in the 80s and you'll see the point, being a fatter tyre they can have a heap more rubber there without then having a tiny air volume. Don't get me wrong, things like the Maxxis Refuse do a great job but if you have a sensible tyre size to begin with then the expensive snake oil stuff isn't necessary.

IME with 23mm you need something special (Maxxis Refuse or Halo Twin Rail are the only two i've tried so far that have been acceptable) to avoid punctures, but once you get to 28mm or bigger you're good with pretty much anything. If any of my 700C bikes would fit 28mm i would be on dirt cheap hybrid tyres in a flash.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 6796
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby mitchy_ » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:05 pm

to fit that size tyre you'll be looking as a CX instead of a road bike.

i've just picked up a disc CX (Norco Threshold), and wasn't expecting too much from the stock Hayes CX-5/CX Expert brakes.. but they are actually really good. i'm actually a little bit upset that my BB7's S Road's cost so much more for no difference.
Designs by Mitch - drafting specialist.
User avatar
mitchy_
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:15 am

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby CKinnard » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:13 pm

Thanks for the feedback.

I am looking at this brand. http://www.volagi.com/
I like how the top tube curves down into the seat stays.

They take up to 38mm tires from memory.

One more question about discs. What are they like to change a tire? Is it easy to damage the discs when in/out-ing?
CKinnard
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:30 pm

CKinnard wrote:Thanks for the feedback.

I am looking at this brand. http://www.volagi.com/
I like how the top tube curves down into the seat stays.

They take up to 38mm tires from memory.

One more question about discs. What are they like to change a tire? Is it easy to damage the discs when in/out-ing?


I don't think i've seen a single bad word about Volagi so you'd be on a pretty fair bet with them.

Installing/removing wheels with discs is virtually no different to rim brakes, on both you line up the braking surface with the caliper. If you were particularly ham-fisted about it you might be able to do something to the rotor but it would be unlikely i think. The only thing is to make sure you don't squeeze the levers on hydro discs while the wheel is out as that can cause trouble with the pistons.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 6796
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby Duck! » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:53 pm

CKinnard wrote:Is it easy to damage the discs when in/out-ing?

No.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
Duck!
Expert
 
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby Calvin27 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:44 pm

mitchy_ wrote:to fit that size tyre you'll be looking as a CX instead of a road bike.

i've just picked up a disc CX (Norco Threshold), and wasn't expecting too much from the stock Hayes CX-5/CX Expert brakes.. but they are actually really good. i'm actually a little bit upset that my BB7's S Road's cost so much more for no difference.


What happened to your carbon play thing that you changed frame on? Hanging in the pool room?
Specialized Secteur Expert
Kona Hei Hei DL
Calvin27
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby mitchy_ » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:27 pm

Calvin27 wrote:
mitchy_ wrote:to fit that size tyre you'll be looking as a CX instead of a road bike.

i've just picked up a disc CX (Norco Threshold), and wasn't expecting too much from the stock Hayes CX-5/CX Expert brakes.. but they are actually really good. i'm actually a little bit upset that my BB7's S Road's cost so much more for no difference.


What happened to your carbon play thing that you changed frame on? Hanging in the pool room?


it's still here... i wanted something not so precious that i can leave locked up at the gym/shops/etc!
Designs by Mitch - drafting specialist.
User avatar
mitchy_
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:15 am

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby Wakatuki » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:43 pm

My pads after one down hill ride. Decended half of Montville hill then headed to the shortcut, oh yeah it was scary. Brakes to bar, gravel segment up to 40% down!!! http://goo.gl/VEOVn9
Picture one is the front, picture two is rear. One of each pair has been sandpapered, as I hope you can see!

ImageImage

99kg rider Jake The Snake on CX tyres, could not even lock up on gravel during this pucker up moment, got 10th overall on the segment though!

Sent using Tapatalk so don't blame me!
User avatar
Wakatuki
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:15 pm
Location: Qld

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:42 pm

:shock: what brakes has the Jake got? They can't be setup right if your lever is to the bar and they don't lockup. My XT ice techs are one finger pull of 1 cm and they lock up.
Image
User avatar
singlespeedscott
 
Posts: 3347
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:35 pm
Location: Elimbah, Queensland

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby mitchy_ » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:49 pm

singlespeedscott wrote::shock: what brakes has the Jake got? They can't be setup right if your lever is to the bar and they don't lockup. My XT ice techs are one finger pull of 1 cm and they lock up.


hydro's are a different kettle of fish, but they are Hayes CX Experts. mine work fine, Wakatuki's aren't playing as nicely....
Designs by Mitch - drafting specialist.
User avatar
mitchy_
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:15 am

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby Wakatuki » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:16 pm

mitchy_ wrote:
singlespeedscott wrote::shock: what brakes has the Jake got? They can't be setup right if your lever is to the bar and they don't lockup. My XT ice techs are one finger pull of 1 cm and they lock up.


hydro's are a different kettle of fish, but they are Hayes CX Experts. mine work fine, Wakatuki's aren't playing as nicely....


Yeah I went to M785 and full ice set-up on the 29er, I was hoping for a similar feel! :shock: it's not the same :(

As the Jake will mainly be a commuter, hill climber, rough tarmac and gravel. I am going to get, when I figure out the parts, a 180mm front and 160mm rear if I don't have to change the calipers. If I do back to the drawing board!

I don't want this happening in the rain with a rear pannier in the dark at the bottom of Woombye hill where a 90 degree left appears after a blind underpass rail bridge where cars queue up for park spots at the local take away... Better overkill than being killed!
User avatar
Wakatuki
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:15 pm
Location: Qld

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby mitchy_ » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:30 pm

Wakatuki wrote:
mitchy_ wrote:
singlespeedscott wrote::shock: what brakes has the Jake got? They can't be setup right if your lever is to the bar and they don't lockup. My XT ice techs are one finger pull of 1 cm and they lock up.


hydro's are a different kettle of fish, but they are Hayes CX Experts. mine work fine, Wakatuki's aren't playing as nicely....


Yeah I went to M785 and full ice set-up on the 29er, I was hoping for a similar feel! :shock: it's not the same :(

As the Jake will mainly be a commuter, hill climber, rough tarmac and gravel. I am going to get, when I figure out the parts, a 180mm front and 160mm rear if I don't have to change the calipers. If I do back to the drawing board!

I don't want this happening in the rain with a rear pannier in the dark at the bottom of Woombye hill where a 90 degree left appears after a blind underpass rail bridge where cars queue up for park spots at the local take away... Better overkill than being killed!


definitely wont require new calipers. new rotors, and caliper adaptors is all that is required.
Designs by Mitch - drafting specialist.
User avatar
mitchy_
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:15 am

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby biker jk » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:28 pm

Does anyone know of a carbon frameset for discs which also has either mudguard eyelets or clearance for removable mudguards?
User avatar
biker jk
 
Posts: 2783
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby mitchy_ » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:33 pm

biker jk wrote:Does anyone know of a carbon frameset for discs which also has either mudguard eyelets or clearance for removable mudguards?


chinese carbon ok? Flyxii FR-602 does.
Designs by Mitch - drafting specialist.
User avatar
mitchy_
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:15 am

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby biker jk » Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:17 pm

mitchy_ wrote:
biker jk wrote:Does anyone know of a carbon frameset for discs which also has either mudguard eyelets or clearance for removable mudguards?


chinese carbon ok? Flyxii FR-602 does.


So it has mudguard eyelets or you can fit removable guards? It has quite long chainstays and hence wheelbase. I was looking for a frame more like the HF-FM079 which has clearance for mudguards.
User avatar
biker jk
 
Posts: 2783
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby silentbutdeadly » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:00 am

Wakatuki wrote:As the Jake will mainly be a commuter, hill climber, rough tarmac and gravel. I am going to get, when I figure out the parts, a 180mm front and 160mm rear if I don't have to change the calipers. If I do back to the drawing board!


I'll be very surprised if the Jake fork is rated to cope with a 180mm rotor...
Ours is not to reason why...merely to point and giggle
User avatar
silentbutdeadly
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:52 am
Location: Somewhere flat...

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:26 am

I don't think it's an issue with rotor size. 160mm is more then enough. It really sounds like poor setup to me.

Stupid question, but do you have the correct levers for the calipers. Road disc calipers require a shorter pull lever and vice versa for mtb cable discs. I used avid road discs on my drop bar 29er with no issues on fast steep descents with 160mm rotors.
Image
User avatar
singlespeedscott
 
Posts: 3347
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:35 pm
Location: Elimbah, Queensland

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby Wakatuki » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:54 am

singlespeedscott wrote:I don't think it's an issue with rotor size. 160mm is more then enough. It really sounds like poor setup to me.

Stupid question, but do you have the correct levers for the calipers. Road disc calipers require a shorter pull lever and vice versa for mtb cable discs. I used avid road discs on my drop bar 29er with no issues on fast steep descents with 160mm rotors.


The bike is fitted with 5700 road levers, its a factory build. I am commuting on it on Saturday in the daylight! I think after several hours tinkering I have it set up properly. It was supposed to have been done at the shop before shipping, not so sure.
User avatar
Wakatuki
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:15 pm
Location: Qld

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby Calvin27 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:27 pm

Wakatuki wrote:
singlespeedscott wrote:I don't think it's an issue with rotor size. 160mm is more then enough. It really sounds like poor setup to me.

Stupid question, but do you have the correct levers for the calipers. Road disc calipers require a shorter pull lever and vice versa for mtb cable discs. I used avid road discs on my drop bar 29er with no issues on fast steep descents with 160mm rotors.


The bike is fitted with 5700 road levers, its a factory build. I am commuting on it on Saturday in the daylight! I think after several hours tinkering I have it set up properly. It was supposed to have been done at the shop before shipping, not so sure.


I've had no issues with 160/140 bar noise - Pretty much running similar to yours with 5700 and BB7R. I did spend a lot of time setting the brakes up properly (pretty much teaching myself how to do it) even though the bike shop said they did it. The thing is there is a lot of different ways to do it and not all of them work for all applications. My preferred method is making the inboard pad sit as close as possible to the disc and then adjusting the outboard depending on where I want the bite point. Sometimes it ever so slightly rubs but I just let it and It goes away after a week of riding. This is better than having more clearance imo as the rotor deflects less. It also means less crap gets into the contact surfaces. I did about 2000kms on my bike didn't need a brake change. I ride in rain hail or shine and even take it gravelling when the path presents itself. Now I run TRP spyres but to be honest they are more difficult to adjust than BB7 with 2 moving surfaces.
Specialized Secteur Expert
Kona Hei Hei DL
Calvin27
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby Wakatuki » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:58 pm

Hi Calvin,
Yeah I watched a few videos on the net and a bit of a search around. After sanding the pads and cleaning the rotors with IPA. I re-inserted the pads. Checked rotor central, then wound in the fixed pad till the wheel would not spin, wound out till it made the occasional ting as the wheel spun. Used the lock grub to hold the position. Then wound out the cable adjuster, held the outboard moving pad so it made contact with the rotor, nipped up the cable and wound adjuster in, until the wheel spun freely, about two turns. Used torque and tightened to spec as per instructions. Then did 30 odd downhills to bed in. I locked up the rear on about the 20+ attempt, due to a free roaming dog. The front seems to grip but not as strong as I would like. Will see how I go on Saturday.
User avatar
Wakatuki
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:15 pm
Location: Qld

Re: Roadies with disc brakes

Postby barefoot » Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:15 pm

Duck! wrote:
CKinnard wrote:... wondering how finicky and expensive they are to maintain.

They're not. Cable discs need periodic manual adjustment to compensate for pad wear, either by an allen key or integrated dial depending on model to wind in the inboard stationary pad in, and the barrel adjuster to tweak the "active" pad.


Kind of like how you need to adjust rim brakes slightly as they wear.

Just not as often. And easier.

You might need to tweak them a few times when new, as they bed in (and/or new cables stretch and/or new cable outers compress), then you really don't need to touch them... like... for ever.

And there's no risk of ham-fistedly misaligning a pad and putting it into the tyre sidewall either. Not that anyone has ever done that with rim brakes :oops:

I wouldn't bother with hydraulics. They're newer to market, they're still having teething problems, they're expensive, and I'm not convinced of the benefits. I've been a big fan of cable discs for ages, and I'd still be running them on my MTB except that I got a new bike, and all new MTBs come with hydros... which aren't all that much better (although they're Avid hydros, which are notorious for being rubbish, but that's another matter).

tim
User avatar
barefoot
 
Posts: 1007
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Ballarat

Next

Return to The Shed

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: lucifuge



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit