BB30 question

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ldrcycles
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BB30 question

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:31 pm

I've just picked up a second hand frame (a gorgeous Merida which was supposedly used by an Estonian Continental team back in 2004) and it turns out it has a BB30 bottom bracket, which i've never dealt with before. It has a hollow splined axle which seems to fit a set of Truvativ ISIS drive cranks i have, but unlike ISIS or square taper BBs there are no internal threads at the ends of the axle, only right down in the guts of it.

So the question is, are the ISIS cranks suitable, and if i need a bolt/bolts to reach that thread deep inside the axle, would the LBS be likely to have it?
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Re: BB30 question

Postby Duck! » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:23 pm

I didn't think BB30 was around in '04, but if it was it would have been in its infancy, and Merida certainly weren't doing it at that point (I was dealing with Merida then, and they were exclusively threaded frames). ISIS is very similar to Shimano's old Octalink splined crank/BB, just a different shape to the splines, and wouldn't touch the sides of a BB30 frame.

I'm decidely confused, do you have pics to enlighten the situation?
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: BB30 question

Postby Tim » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:31 pm

BB30?
Take it back to the tip.

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Re: BB30 question

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:34 am

The age is the best guess i can come up with, the story from the seller is that it's ex Kalev Chocolate Team, a Continental team based in Estonia for 04 and 05. I've only found one mention of a model name as Road 906. It has 2 sets of serial numbers under the BB if that's likely to help?

These pics are from the seller, too dark to get pics myself atm. Ignore the scales, it's actually 1875g. Definitely BB30 sized shell.


Image


Image
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Re: BB30 question

Postby Duck! » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:08 am

That's not BB30, just a good old-fashioned screw-in. That's also an ISIS spline spindle, but I'm still confused by the thread location.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: BB30 question

Postby Duck! » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:12 am

The frame does look consistent with the '02-'04 frames. It wouldn't happen to be magnesium would it?
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: BB30 question

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:47 am

The pics must be confusing, but that's the one thing i'm certain of, it's a BB30 shell, WAY bigger than a threaded bottom bracket and matches the measurements for a BB30 shell. The spindle has a shoulder to step up from the splined section to where it interfaces with the bearings.

The badge on the seat tube says it's 6066 aluminium (which i've not seen before).
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Re: BB30 question

Postby Duck! » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:03 pm

More weirdness. 6066 was used by Merida for a while, so that bit isn't all that unusual.

I see what you mean about the BB now, on a different 'poota with better resolution..... Must be a very early version to suit ISIS cranks. I've never seen that before.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: BB30 question

Postby jasonc » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:21 pm

Image

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Re: BB30 question

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:43 pm

jasonc wrote:problem solved:
http://kogelbearings.mysimplestore.com/


Bearings are the easy bit, as i can get any cartridge bearings (even ceramic) cheaply through my work. It's just a matter of fitting cranks to the existing setup if possible. If it turns out to be a no go then i can get a more normal arrangement for about $80, or just an adaptor to fit threaded BB options.
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Re: BB30 question

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:01 pm

OK got some pics up. I took the frame to one of the LBSs and he was stumped. He remembered a mate having something similar but as to whether bolts would be available, anyone's guess. He's going to make some phone calls and see if he can track something down.

You can see in the last pic where the spindle would normally be machined out for standard ISIS bolts, i tried to show the thread deep down in the guts of it but you can't really see it.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: BB30 question

Postby KGB » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:07 pm

That's a good looking frame, whatever it is.
Image

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Re: BB30 question

Postby silentbutdeadly » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:40 am

So all you need are longer threaded machine bolts to fit the cranks rather than traditional crank bolts?

I'm with KGB on the frame by the way...
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Re: BB30 question

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:26 pm

silentbutdeadly wrote:So all you need are longer threaded machine bolts to fit the cranks rather than traditional crank bolts?


That's the idea, but finding such bolts seems to be the difficult part.

+3 about the frame, it's a really nice bit of gear, should be a Strava weapon when i've eventually got it built up! That's why i'm persisting :) .
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Re: BB30 question

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:06 pm

I got the frame back from the shop today, they had been corresponding with SRAM about it and the eventual conclusion was that it was not a SRAM part and "might have been some sort of FSA thing but good luck". One of the LBS staff said it might have been related to an obscure BMX bottom bracket. So with that information i decided to knock the axle out and have a gander.

So i can confirm (though i was already certain) that the shell is BB30, and very nicely made. The bearings however were not BB30 (aka 6806) as the internal diameter was 27mm instead of 30. Looking closely at the axle i'm not sure anymore if it is threaded, if it is then the threads are very fine but maybe it's just machining marks, it's very hard to tell. In any case i'm now getting a quote for some 6806 bearings from my workplace supplier and then i'll fit adaptors for my Shimano Hollowtech cranks (as that will be about half the price of the cheapest BB30 crankset i can find).



Image



Image
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Re: BB30 question

Postby silentbutdeadly » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:01 am

Nifty! The Enduro crank adapters from DIYMTB are nicely made but a smidge over $50
Image

One question though...what's the shell width on that frame?
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Re: BB30 question

Postby kb » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:34 am

I thinking of going Praxis myself. It's a little pricier but looks like a solid solution. https://praxiscycles.com/conversion-bb/
Image

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Re: BB30 question

Postby mitchy_ » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:38 am

kb wrote:I thinking of going Praxis myself. It's a little pricier but looks like a solid solution. https://praxiscycles.com/conversion-bb/


Praxis didn't have a sram option when i had a GXP crank in a BB30 frame, so i went this. no creak, etc. and no requirement to press in bearings.

http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id355.html
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Re: BB30 question

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:23 pm

Bloody hell, why do i seem to attract haunted bikes? The new 6806 bearings arrived the other day, so this afternoon it was time to get busy with the loctite and bearing press. Except the bearings aren't a press fit, they just drop in and rattle around! Measured the bearings and everything's kosher there, measured the BB diameter and it comes out as 43.1mm. What the hell!?

Maybe the calipers i used to measure things when i removed the original bearings and axle were off, or who knows what, but i'm sure i measured both the O.D. of the bearings and the BB shell and came up with the right numbers. In any case, the bearings i have do not go even close to fitting, so time to do more measuring and double check.
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Re: BB30 question

Postby silentbutdeadly » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:18 am

ldrcycles wrote:Bloody hell, why do i seem to attract haunted bikes?


It's the pile of dead bikes out the back that does it...

This might help...or not http://problemsolversbike.com/files/tec ... erence.pdf

On the bright side...if you get this to work you might set a new standard!!
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Re: BB30 question

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:18 pm

Ok i finally decided to have another go at this thing. So what is a BB30 when it's not a BB30? I've measured the shell and original bearings with the greatest precision i can muster and the shell is 43.1mm, the bearings 42.95. So it isn't BB30, and press fit 30 is 46mm diameter, so it's not that either. I've tried the search functions on a couple of bearing websites and can't find any 43x30mm bearings, or for that matter, any that match the original 43x27!

So would the Praxis/Enduro adaptor cartridges work with a BB shell that's 1.1mm oversize? I think that's about my only option, i'm an optimistic sort but i still think it's a bit beyond my capabilities (and those of the machinery i have available) to machine a shim that's only 0.55mm thick. Not to mention the odds of such an arrangement being creak-free.
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Re: BB30 question

Postby silentbutdeadly » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:00 am

ldrcycles wrote:So would the Praxis/Enduro adaptor cartridges work with a BB shell that's 1.1mm oversize?


Nope. I think if thee were me I'd be getting an adapter made to slide into your shell so you can fit conventional external cups

Your other option is a threadless square taper BB like Velo Orange Grand Cru http://www.ucycle.com/product/velo-oran ... t-1438.htm or this http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/first-thread ... 2/?geoc=au (SJS Cycles do have others. If the compression rings in these is not the right size then get another pair made up
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Re: BB30 question

Postby silentbutdeadly » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:52 am

Bingo!

It is a FSA Megatech BB http://mbaction.com/product-tests/sept- ... t-standard and was used by Pinarello in their M.O.S.T. house brand components

Image
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Re: BB30 question

Postby ldrcycles » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:43 am

We have a winner! Thanks sbd i've never heard of that before. That link didn't mention bearing size and it took a little digging but eventually i found "It's an open-industry standard that uses 43mm bearings pressed directly into the BB shell, and an ISIS axle". That photo shows normal ISIS threading in the axle, so it still doesn't explain the weird axle i have, but so long as i can find a Megatech kit i'm home and hosed.

Could be a bit easier said than done though..
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Re: BB30 question

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:25 am

Finally some more news on this one, but none of it good.

I went back to the LBS armed with the knowledge of what was needed and got them to contact the FSA distributor.

2 weeks later i hadn't heard anything so popped in to the shop, it turns out there were only 1 or 2 people at the distributor who had any idea what they were talking about, and they were just ignoring the emails and phone calls from the shop. The blokes at the shop suggested i contact them directly, as they have found in cases like this that customers don't get brushed off the way shops do.

So i emailed a certain company (not naming any names) asking if FSA Megatech BBs were still available. The response was "to suit what cranks" :roll: . So i detailed what a Megatech BB is and the next email was "can't help you, contact such and such as they are the new distributors, we only have some old stuff left".

So i emailed such and such and got a very quick reply- "Could you please be a little more specific with which bottom bracket that you are requiring.
There is not a Megatech BB in the FSA range. I am guessing that you may be enquiring about a Mega Evo unit." Sigh. Another email to explain what megatech is (hasn't anyone ever heard of google?) and another very quick reply.

Apparently they only took over the distribution 18 months ago, so haven't got any older stuff, and suggested going to a bearing shop (remembering that this size of bearing was a proprietary FSA thing, and as far as i can tell has never been available anywhere else).

So that's great.
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