Downgrading DI2 Firmware

vosadrian
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Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby vosadrian » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:23 am

Hi All,

Over the last year or two, Shimano have released DI2 firmwares for the various components that prevent compatibility of certain DI2 components to work with each other. These compatibilities were supported in previous firmwares, and Shimano appear to have done this to force customers to buy more components in order to meet the Shimano comparability requirements. Examples of things that used to work but nolonger work:

* Running a mixed combination of 10 and 11 speed derailleurs.
* Running an internal battery with an older EW67 front junction.

2 years ago I upgraded my 6770 bike to internal battery and it worked no problems. I just plugged everything in and it worked (note that I have made an adapter for the BCR2 charger to plug into a standard DI2 connecting port). I tried to do the same for my wife's bike recently and it did not work as the battery I purchased had firmware that prevented the system from working without the later front junction. I spent a bit of time mucking about with the Shimano Etube software trying to work out how to downgrade the firmware in order to get this working without purchasing any more components, and I was successful in finding a method to downgrade any DI2 component and I will outline this below. Note that you do this at your own risk. It is kind of hacking with Etube software, and it worked fine for me, but there is some risk you could load an incorrect firmware to suit your hardware or brick a component or something, so you take that risk if you do this.

The first thing you need is a source of the older firmwares prior to the time Shimano created this issue. My research reveals the best firmwares are the latest before the change which happened at version 2.6.0. The previous version was 2.5.2 but I have been unable to locate a copy of this as Shimano have removed it from their website. Shimano do have an old version for pre Windows 8 which is what I have used: http://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/download/E-tube_Proj_V_2_2_3.zip .

First uninstall any other versions of Etube installed (as the old version will not install with a later version installed). Then install the old 2.2.3 version (or 2.5.2 if you have it), and copy the location "C:\ProgramData\E-tube Project\FW" which is a hidden location that contains all the firmware, so you may need to copy/paste the location to the explorer bar. Now you can install a later version of Etube. I used 2.11.0 as I had it, but you can 2.11.1 from here: http://api.shimano.com/etube/public/data/upload/published/E-tube_Proj_V_2_11_1.zip

Now copy all the firmware files you previously made a copy of from the older Etube version back to the same location "C:\ProgramData\E-tube Project\FW". Note that we now have a copy of old firmwares, but Etube will not allow you to downgrade firmware. The trick is to trick Etube into thinking the old firmware is newer. This is actually really easy. Etube seems to only check the file name to get the firmware version, so all you need to do is rename the older firmware to a later version than the latest firwmare you have. So locate the firmware for the component you wish to downgrade (should be able to do this from the file name eg battery files name starts with SMBTR2). Then find the latest firmware version (highest number in the version in the name). Then make a copy of the old firmware file (should have identical name except for the version number) and rename it so that the file name is identical to the latest version except that the last number is incremented by 1. Now when Etube looks for new firmwares it will see a later version and want to upgrade your component to the latest version.

Now I recommend running Etube without an internet connection as it tries to upgrade itself and any firmware (which may be later than what you just "created"), so disconnect any Ethernet cable or WiFi. Run Etube and connect to your bike as you normally do. When Etube has recognised your system it should come up as a firmware update available for the component you created the new firmware for. Perform the "update" as normal and it will think it is upgrading but will actually downgrade to the old version (which is reversible later). Then exit ETube. I recommend now going and deleting the firmware file you created previously.

You have successfully downgraded you firmware!! Note that when you go into ETube again, it will want to upgrade that same component as it will now see the really old firmware and recognise a newer firmware it has to update it, but simply do no perform the firmware update... or you are back where you started.

In my case, I had to first downgrade the battery and it would not allow me to get to that stage as my bike setup is "unrecognised" due to internal battery with EW67 junction. Therefore I disconnected all other components so only the battery was connected. Then I was able get Etube to recognise just the battery and perform the downgrade. The bike was still not working so I then had to downgrade the shifters as they had been updated at some point since 2.6.0. So I had to remove the internal battery to get Etube to recognise the setup and I then downgraded the shifters. After this I plugged everything back in and the bike was working perfectly.

Hope this helps some people.

Finally, I would like to get a copy of ETube v 2.5.2. Shimano have removed it from their site. I am sure someone has a copy sitting in their downloads folder somewhere. Please let me know if you do and can get me a copy.

Cheers,

Adrian
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tomjc
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby tomjc » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:33 am

Thanks for the great tip. Came in very useful today for a slightly different problem. I have a "fully compliant"(!) Ultegra 68XX set-up which has been running fine, connected via the EWW01 wireless unit to my Garmin 1000. I had been running 3.05 firmware on the EWW01 unit, but was asked today when I connected to E-Tube Project to upgrade to 3.06 firmware which naturally I did without thinking twice. Big mistake - Garmin no longer sees Di2 despite multiple attempts to connect.

Having trawled through various posts I was about to give up and hand the whole thing over to LBS to see if they could fix when I came across your post. However, my route was quite a bit simpler (maybe because I wasn't trying to change firmware on the battery??):

1. Went to C:\ProgramData\E-tube Project\FW
2. Deleted the 3.06 version of the EWW firmware from the folder
3. Made a copy of the 3.05 version which was still in there and renamed the copy as 3.07
4. Turned off my laptop's internet connection
5. Connected my laptop to the bike and loaded up E-Tube software
6. When E-Tube connected to the Di2 system, it recognized that there was a "new" firmware update and loaded up the "3.07" update
7. Disconnected from bike and booted up Garmin
8. Garmin connected to Di2 first time - hooray!

vosadrian
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby vosadrian » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:15 am

Well done!!

I think the reason my mechanism was more complicated is because later versions of Etube refused to talk to my setup as it is an unsupported setup (I have internal battery with an old EW67 junction). Older versions were not as fussy. I cannot use later versions than 2.5.2. Note that 2.5.2 also allows mixed 10/11 speed derailers and other setups unsupported by later Etube. If you have a supported setup, then you can use the latest version and just change the firmware names as you have done by the looks of it.
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gcarvalheira
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby gcarvalheira » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:33 am

Hey my friend,

i have a Di2 6770 10v system, and recently i got a 11v rear derallieur, so my question is: the compatibility issue is with which component of the system? The front derallieur, STI´s, junction box or the batery.

I am asking that because o got the solution from your post, although i don´t know exactly whitch components i need to downgrade the firmware.

The first thing i noticed was that the amount of firmware files in the older e-tube version is different than the newest. So, i have 3 or 4 files related to FD (Front derallieur).

Many thanks!!!
Gustavo Carvalheira

vosadrian
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby vosadrian » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:31 am

With latest firmware, the FD and RD have to match.... you can't run a 10s of one with a 11s of the other. With older firmware you can mix them up. Typically I have been able t work out which firmware is used for which component by looking at the name. Normally there is something that references the part number of the component, so it was not too difficult to work out.
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Duck!
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Duck! » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:29 pm

Although never officially possible, there was a brief period early in the days of 11-sp. where an 11-sp. RD would talk to a 6770 FD (the only 10-sp. set on the E-Tube platform). To make the new RD work you need to somehow downgrade it to the vintage that will play nice with the FD. Shifters & other bits are not 10- or 11-sp. specific, so they'll all be fine, you just need to get the derailleurs talking to each other.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

lone rider
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby lone rider » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:59 pm

So as somebody with 6770 with an external battery my group set is approaching 5 years and the deraileur are staring to look ratty and I'm looking replace with new parts in the next few months with the help of sales prices. Im wanting to stick with the external battery and just replce FD, RD, chain and cassette and possibly junction box. I'm reading that the battery holds the firmware so will need to be firmware upgraded but am worried this will cause issues. Is it possible to go to 6870 and still keep an external battery?

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Duck!
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Duck! » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:06 pm

External battery and older-style junction box are fine; the only bits that are 10- or 11-sp. specific are the derailleurs, which need to be paired (i.e. both 6770 for 10-sp. or 6870/9070 for 11-sp. The 11-sp. can be mixed between levels).

All other Di2 parts are fully compatible, but you will probably need to do a firmware update for the battery mount to talk to the derailleurs. All components have their individual firmware; it's not all contained just in the battery mount (with the external battery system the battery itself is just that - the power supply, the mount contains a fair chunk of the brainpower; the internal battery combines both the power source and the brain power). However some features of the 11-sp. systems, most notably the Synchro shift option, do need a newer battery mount and possibly junction box. I'm not sure if the updates for Synchro are available yet, but Shimano were saying a while ago it would be released around December.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

lone rider
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby lone rider » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:46 am

Thanks Duck.

vosadrian
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby vosadrian » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:46 am

lone rider wrote:Thanks Duck.


Doing that firmware upgrade is going to be your problem. You could do it yourself with either the shop tool or a BCR2 charger. There is even a way to connect a BCR2 to a DI2 system without the newer EW junction if you know someone you can borrow a BCR2 charger from. I have 2 bikes running internal battery with the EW67 earlier junction. I made an adapter that enables me to plug the BCR2 charger in to a free DI2 port (on shifters which have a spare port) for charging and programming (updates/settings).
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gcarvalheira
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby gcarvalheira » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:47 am

tomjc wrote:Thanks for the great tip. Came in very useful today for a slightly different problem. I have a "fully compliant"(!) Ultegra 68XX set-up which has been running fine, connected via the EWW01 wireless unit to my Garmin 1000. I had been running 3.05 firmware on the EWW01 unit, but was asked today when I connected to E-Tube Project to upgrade to 3.06 firmware which naturally I did without thinking twice. Big mistake - Garmin no longer sees Di2 despite multiple attempts to connect.

Having trawled through various posts I was about to give up and hand the whole thing over to LBS to see if they could fix when I came across your post. However, my route was quite a bit simpler (maybe because I wasn't trying to change firmware on the battery??):

1. Went to C:\ProgramData\E-tube Project\FW
2. Deleted the 3.06 version of the EWW firmware from the folder
3. Made a copy of the 3.05 version which was still in there and renamed the copy as 3.07
4. Turned off my laptop's internet connection
5. Connected my laptop to the bike and loaded up E-Tube software
6. When E-Tube connected to the Di2 system, it recognized that there was a "new" firmware update and loaded up the "3.07" update
7. Disconnected from bike and booted up Garmin
8. Garmin connected to Di2 first time - hooray!


You just renamed the filename?

Crawf
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Crawf » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:35 pm

So if I have...

-RD 6870
-FD 6770
-Int Battery

I need to downgrade the RD & Int Battery to 2.5.2 or 2.2.3?

vosadrian
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby vosadrian » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:41 pm

Crawf wrote:So if I have...

-RD 6870
-FD 6770
-Int Battery

I need to downgrade the RD & Int Battery to 2.5.2 or 2.2.3?


Not sure. I use 2.5.2 but I have 6870 for both. I would try 2.5.2 and see if it works. Otherwise go earlier. I am not sure which version corresponded with the release of internal battery, but I am sure with a bit of fiddling you can work it out.
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Crawf
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Crawf » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:04 pm

Will do some testing, this could save me hundred$ on the TT & CX bike.

Oh and I found E-tube_Proj_V_2_5_2.exe for you :) I've uploaded it to my storage and will leave it shared.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwSP- ... y1KdnZkaUk

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hamishm
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby hamishm » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:54 pm

Anyone in Melbourne with the SM-PCE1 want to help me and a friend out with upgrades to the latest firmware, in exchange for beer or similar?

karlitos
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby karlitos » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:05 pm

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the tips and I do have the E-tube v.2.5.2 version if anyone wants one. Not sure how to share but can be figured out. I have converted a few bikes from 10s to 11s using only new 6870 rear derailleur and they work fine. Not sure if internal battery would work as well. Cheers

Pootle
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Pootle » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:58 am

Hi all, especially Crawf.
I'm in Ottawa, Canada, but I registered here just to thank everyone for their exceptionally helpful information and, in several cases, such as Crawf's, links to useful software and firmware. The background, in case anyone's remotely interested: I recently bought a 2012 Ridley Noah Pro with 6770 UDi2. A spectacular bike and the Di2 works like a dream but the bike had one small problem: it came with a Sram/Quarq power meter crankset with 53/39 rings and I need lower gears because of my great age - 60 - and the hills I like to ride. I can't go to significantly smaller rings because the spider has a 130mm diameter, so the only option was to go to an 11 speed, 11-32 rear cassette. And you know the rest...
Thanks again to everyone!
Robin

Kronos
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Kronos » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:16 am

This is indeed a useful thread as I'm in the process of doing a 6770 conversion myself, I know there are some technical difficulties with different component sets. What you are doing is unofficial so it would be wise not to do a firmware upgrade as you will lose compatibility.

Crawf
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Crawf » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:55 pm

Can anyone tell me what the filename is for an RD6870, e.g. RD68703.2.0.dat
My etube has not downloaded the dat file because my RD6870 is on the latest version.

Need to confirm the actual complete RD6870 filename found in C:\ProgramData\E-tube Project\FW ?

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Ross
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Ross » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:58 pm

Duck! wrote:External battery and older-style junction box are fine; the only bits that are 10- or 11-sp. specific are the derailleurs, which need to be paired (i.e. both 6770 for 10-sp. or 6870/9070 for 11-sp. The 11-sp. can be mixed between levels).

All other Di2 parts are fully compatible, but you will probably need to do a firmware update for the battery mount to talk to the derailleurs. All components have their individual firmware; it's not all contained just in the battery mount (with the external battery system the battery itself is just that - the power supply, the mount contains a fair chunk of the brainpower; the internal battery combines both the power source and the brain power). However some features of the 11-sp. systems, most notably the Synchro shift option, do need a newer battery mount and possibly junction box. I'm not sure if the updates for Synchro are available yet, but Shimano were saying a while ago it would be released around December.


Can you mix and match 6870 and 8070 derailleurs? With external battery, not wanting syncro shift.

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ValleyForge
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby ValleyForge » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:25 pm

Pootle wrote: I recently bought a 2012 Ridley Noah Pro with 6770 UDi2.


Beautiful bike. Strange bedfellow wrt the groupset tho....
Ha ha ha! Cookies on dowels.

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Duck!
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Duck! » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:26 pm

Yes. All the 11-sp. stuff, both generations, is interchangeable.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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ValleyForge
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby ValleyForge » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:28 pm

Duck! wrote:Yes. All the 11-sp. stuff, both generations, is interchangeable.

For now.... :twisted:
Ha ha ha! Cookies on dowels.

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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby dj_oatmeal » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:36 am

This is one of the few places I've found where DI2 firmware is being downgraded. I'm hoping someone can help with my issue.

Trying to get the following running:
L-R Shifters 6870
EW90-A
FD-6770
RD-6870
BTR2

Taking it one step at a time and currently connected as below:
I'm running E Tube v2.5.2 with SM-BCR2 (V3.0.1)
Junction A SM-EW90-A with v3.0.4
I placed a renamed copy of the EW90-A FW from the 2.5.2 FW folder(original was v2.2.0 now named 3.0.5) and deleted the original.
Opened E Tube and do the connection test on just the EW90 with nothing else connected.
It finds the unit but when I go to the Update Firmware window it shows that newer FW is not available.

If I add the BTR2 to the mix it tells me to remove it and upgrade to the newest version of E Tube.

Any ideas?

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Duck!
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Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Duck! » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:18 pm

Your issue is the derailleurs. You need to somehow find the earliest firmware for the 6870 to have any hope of it working. The 11-sp. models were never intended to talk to 6770, but there was a brief period where they worked.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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