Downgrading DI2 Firmware

dj_oatmeal
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:13 am

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby dj_oatmeal » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:00 pm

Here is where I am at.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tkq75aohyr5nw ... 7.jpg?dl=0

The battery was originally v3.0.4(or 0.5) and went through the "upgrade" process as described using a renamed copy of old FW.
The shifter will not play so far. Etube sometimes says they won't work and that I need to upgrade etube and other times it tries to upgrade the FW. I haven't figured out the difference. When it says to upgrade the FW I let it try multiple times but nothing seems to happen.

The EW90A still won't take an "upgrade" using the exact same technique that worked on the seemingly more sophisticated battery.

The other thing missing is the option to use the RD6870 as 10 speed vs 11 speed. Using v2.5.2 I don't have that dropdown. That said the RD is working but just as 11 speed. Maybe it's a different version of Etube that has that feature?

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 9850
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Duck! » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:04 am

dj_oatmeal wrote:
The other thing missing is the option to use the RD6870 as 10 speed vs 11 speed. Using v2.5.2 I don't have that dropdown. That said the RD is working but just as 11 speed. Maybe it's a different version of Etube that has that feature?
RD-6870 has never had the possibility of being set up as 10-sp. In contrast to mechanical systems where the shift indexing is a function of the shifters, Di2 reverses it and has the derailleurs hard-programmed to index a particular way, with the shifters being the slaves.

As mentioned previously, there was a brief period early in the life of 9070/6870 where it was possible to upgrade a 6770 10-sp. system to 11-sp. simply by dropping in one of those rear derailleurs, although it was never actually supposed to work in conjunction with the FD-6770. A subsequent firmware update removed that accidental front/rear derailleur communication, meaning 6770 had to remain paired for 10-sp, and 9070 & 6870 could be mixed with each other, but not with FD-6770 for 11-sp.

You may be striking further problems by having some components that are too new to be downgradeable to older-spec firmware; the DN110 battery in particular springs to mind. If you want to go back far enough to mix 10 & 11-sp.derailleurs - they're the critical bits - you'll need to use a full complement of contemporary components that the relevant firmware was written for.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

jawwy
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:55 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby jawwy » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:05 pm

vosadrian wrote:
lone rider wrote:Thanks Duck.
Doing that firmware upgrade is going to be your problem. You could do it yourself with either the shop tool or a BCR2 charger. There is even a way to connect a BCR2 to a DI2 system without the newer EW junction if you know someone you can borrow a BCR2 charger from. I have 2 bikes running internal battery with the EW67 earlier junction. I made an adapter that enables me to plug the BCR2 charger in to a free DI2 port (on shifters which have a spare port) for charging and programming (updates/settings).

Hi! Created/registered here as I have no real idea what I am doing :)
Very interested in this post, and I am hoping for some more information.
I have an Giant TCR which has the very original 6770 Di2, with the really old junction box (not sure of model number, but can find it) and I wish to upgrade the software, as I recently purchased the R8070 FD and RD and an 11 speed cassette. I was hoping that because I have never done a software upgrade on the bike, I could just put in the new di2 components and keep the old 6770 shifters and everything would be hunky dory. This wasn't to be however. From what I understand, because the generation gap between these components is rather large, the software must be updated first.
However, I am currently living in Chiang Mai in Thailand, and although some of the bike shops here are brilliant, I am struggling to find the
SM-PCE1 interface that I am supposed to use for the upgrade. I can, however, track down the BCR2 charger interface box thingy. I think. How would I go about plugging this charger into the bike to be able to do the software upgrade? Thanks so very much for your help.
I am dying to fit these new components on the bike and go 11 speed.

vosadrian
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby vosadrian » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:47 pm

I have a similar setup to you, but I have 6870 series FD and RD (and I run the internal battery). I do not have the new junction that plugs to BCR2 and I made a cable that can plug between a BCR2 charger and a spare port on my 6770 shifters. If you have a spare DI2 cable around, you could cut that up to make a cable. When you cut the cable, there is a red (+) and black (-) wire internally. You can connect these to the equivalent wires on the BCR2 charger and then plug the DI2 connector into the spare port on the shifter. In my case I did not want to modify the BCR2 charger so I used some 0.1" pitch pin header to plug into the BCR2 connector and then soldered the red and black wires to the header so it can be plugged into the BCR2 connector. Just make sure you plug it in the right way to avoid reverse polarity which could damage something. You can measure the voltage of the BCR2 connector pins with a multi-meter to determine the polarity.

Note that if you do this, you may find that the software recognises your setup as an invalid setup (it will expect to see the correct junction) in which case it may refuse to allow you to do anything. As stated earlier in this thread, earlier versions of the software are not as fussy with setup and can be used to upgrade firmware to later version than supported by the software (assuming you can get an old software version). I found that simply disconnecting all the parts except the ones you want to program (and the battery) can make the software happier also.

Good luck!

bopgorn
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:52 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby bopgorn » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:08 pm

@vosadrian

how did you made an adapter for the BCR2 charger to plug into a standard DI2 connecting port?
Could you please describe it?

Best regards from germany

Marcel

vosadrian
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby vosadrian » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:57 am

bopgorn wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:08 pm
@vosadrian

how did you made an adapter for the BCR2 charger to plug into a standard DI2 connecting port?
Could you please describe it?

Best regards from germany

Marcel
Hi Marcel,

I give a detailed description in the first paragraph of my post immediately above your post. Not sure I could add any more detail than that. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Cheers,

Adrian

bopgorn
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:52 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby bopgorn » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:14 am

Hi Adrian,

i build an adapter, exactly following your instructions and it works like a charm. I downgraded the firmware of the bcr2 to 2.2.1 and i was able to downgrade the firmware of the btr2 too. Now the unsupported setup with btr2 and ew67a ist supported. The only question i have, is about the charging indication leds of the bcr2. No charging light ist coming up or flashing while the bcr2 it connected to the di2 system (ST6770R). I don't know, if the battery is charging or not. Can you confirm this behaviour?

Best regards

Marcel

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 9850
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Duck! » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:44 am

The battery does not charge while the E-tube software is running.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

bopgorn
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:52 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby bopgorn » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:39 am

There is no light coming up neither while etube is running nor the BCR2 is in charging mode.

best regards

Marcel

vosadrian
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby vosadrian » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:42 pm

I charged using an iPhone USB adapter and I always got a light on the bcr2 while charging that went out when charged. The behaviour of the bcr2 should be identical to when plugging into a supported junction. So if you are not getting a light I suspect it is either fully charged or in communication mode or there is some other issue.

wesbutler99
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:17 am

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby wesbutler99 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:23 am

Hi,

Trying to get my new 6870 rear derailleur to work with my 6770 front derailleur. I have downloaded etube version 2.11, but I am not sure how to go about copying the files at "file:///C:/ProgramData/E-tube%20Project/FW/". Do I download them to my computer and somehow put them in etube? Not really sure what to do with those files???

vosadrian
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby vosadrian » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:53 am

You install the old verion of Etube only to get the old firmware files (which are packaged in the install). There is no other reason to need it. So install the old Etube, and go to the folder mentioned and copy the files and store them somewhere for later use. Then install the new version of Etube. Once installed, go to the same location for the new Etube, and it will have the newer firmwares (that were packaged with it). You can copy the old firmwares to this location so all firmwares are now in the one folder. Then you have to identify which system components you want to downgrade. Then make a copy of the old firmware version for that component and rename the copy to have the same name as the new firmware for that component, but increment the final version number by 1. Now you are ready to connect to the bike and perform the firmware downgrade. Etube will see the old firmware with a new file name as a later version and will then ask you if you want to "upgrade" but you will actually be doing a downgrade.

wesbutler99
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:17 am

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby wesbutler99 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:36 am

Do you have to use the newest version of E-Tube? My SM-PCE1 does not want to connect to the newest for some reason. I am trying to use versions 2.2.3 and 2.5.2. I have the old files from 2.2.3 and I dowloaded 2.5.2. I go to C:\ProgramData\E-tube Project\FW after downloading 2.5.2 and I dont know how to get rid of all those files. It only lets you download them. Doesnt seem to let you delete them and put new files in.

vosadrian
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby vosadrian » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:45 am

I did this several years ago, so just used the versions mentioned in the first thread. I suspect you could use any version to actually do the downgrade. The key here is getting the firmware version you want (in whatever E-tube version it is in) and then making a copy of it with a name that is later than whatever else is in the folder. The logic seems to be that E-tube looks at the firmwares for the attached components and if there is something later that a connected component, it attempts to upgrade it to whatever is the latest version name in that folder. I tried to use the latest version of E-tube to do this just because it should have less bugs, but an early version should be fine. I can't answer why you can't delete/copy files. Are you running E-tube when doing this? It may have files locked... or some Windows protection thing?

wesbutler99
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:17 am

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby wesbutler99 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:12 am

Ok, so I figured out how to put the old files in that folder. For the rear derailleur files, your saying I need to increase the last number of each file by 1? So for instance, change file name "RD6770A.3.0.2.dat" to "RD6770A.3.0.3.dat"? And do you need to change all file names of the old to match the new or just the ones that start with "RD" because the rear derailleur is all that I am downgrading. Thanks for your help!

vosadrian
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby vosadrian » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:16 am

The file name needs to have a number that is at least 1 greater than the latest version in the folder... AND it must also be later than the version in the component. So see which is later out of the firmware in the component and the firmware in the folder. Then name it as the latest version of them (plus 1).

If you use the latest E-tube, the firmware in the component should be no newer than the E-tube firmware so you can just use the E-tube firmware and increment by 1. If you are using an old E-tube, you may find the component has later firmware than the E-tube, so you need to name it differently.

batch73
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:05 am

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby batch73 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:20 am

Hi, sorry for reviving a quit old topic, but I wanted to know if someone had a save of the 2.5.2 etube version as the file Crawf posted on 2016 now needs to have rights to be accessed. It would save me from a lot of faffing around.
Cheers

Crawf
Posts: 2004
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:20 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby Crawf » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:18 am

URL updated.

batch73
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:05 am

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby batch73 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:15 am

Thanks a lot !
However, I still have a question : I can't find the rd6870 dat file in the fw folder. Is it because it is the same as the 9070 one ?
I will only have access to the sm-pce1 programmer for a limited time so I basically want to be quite sure of the whole process beforehand.

batch73
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:05 am

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby batch73 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:19 am

I'm running a full 6770 groupset (fd, shifters, external battery, ew67 junction) with a 6870rd btw

nguyenlp
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:15 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby nguyenlp » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:11 pm

dj_oatmeal wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:36 am
This is one of the few places I've found where DI2 firmware is being downgraded. I'm hoping someone can help with my issue.

Trying to get the following running:
L-R Shifters 6870
EW90-A
FD-6770
RD-6870
BTR2

Taking it one step at a time and currently connected as below:
I'm running E Tube v2.5.2 with SM-BCR2 (V3.0.1)
Junction A SM-EW90-A with v3.0.4
I placed a renamed copy of the EW90-A FW from the 2.5.2 FW folder(original was v2.2.0 now named 3.0.5) and deleted the original.
Opened E Tube and do the connection test on just the EW90 with nothing else connected.
It finds the unit but when I go to the Update Firmware window it shows that newer FW is not available.

If I add the BTR2 to the mix it tells me to remove it and upgrade to the newest version of E Tube.

Any ideas?
any luck with this? i've got the same problem and set up as you,
also whats the FW file for rd6870? cant seem to find it on any etube versions. Cant find any 6870 coded files on FW

batch73
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:05 am

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby batch73 » Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:26 am

nguyenlp wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:11 pm
dj_oatmeal wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:36 am
This is one of the few places I've found where DI2 firmware is being downgraded. I'm hoping someone can help with my issue.

Trying to get the following running:
L-R Shifters 6870
EW90-A
FD-6770
RD-6870
BTR2

Taking it one step at a time and currently connected as below:
I'm running E Tube v2.5.2 with SM-BCR2 (V3.0.1)
Junction A SM-EW90-A with v3.0.4
I placed a renamed copy of the EW90-A FW from the 2.5.2 FW folder(original was v2.2.0 now named 3.0.5) and deleted the original.
Opened E Tube and do the connection test on just the EW90 with nothing else connected.
It finds the unit but when I go to the Update Firmware window it shows that newer FW is not available.

If I add the BTR2 to the mix it tells me to remove it and upgrade to the newest version of E Tube.

Any ideas?
any luck with this? i've got the same problem and set up as you,
also whats the FW file for rd6870? cant seem to find it on any etube versions. Cant find any 6870 coded files on FW
Ok so I got my answer today. Basically the rd6870 uses the rd9070 firmware to operate.

In my case, the rd6870 firmware was up to date, v3.0.1, according to my Etube Project 4.0.4. The only v3.0.1 RD firmware in the etube folder was the rd9070 one (RD9070.3.0.1.dat).
I then changed the "1" in "3.0.1" to a "2" and when I relaunched Etube Project it shown that a firmware update was available, proving that it was used across both ultegra and dura ace derailleur.
I then renamed the RD9070.2.3.0.dat file (from the old Etube 2.5.2 software) to RD9070.3.3.0.dat (i did previously put it in the FW folder) and updated the firmware of the rd6870 with no problem !
I was so happy to see it come alive in front of me :D

I used a SM-BCR1 on a fully 6770 groupset except the rear derailleur.

Small tip : you can directly plug the programer in the derailleur as the software will be quicker to initialize and won't ask you about your other outdated firmware ( in my case it was asking to update my smbr1 first, by directly plugging into it, wich was a problem for me as it's now enclosed next to my bb to allow me the use of a diy battery in my seatpost).

For your battery problem, I remember reading on another forum that the battery firmware was the first way of locking the 10/11s mix implemented by shimano so maybe try to downgrade your battery firmware first (I don't have an internal battery so can't experiment with it)

Ask me if you have any question :wink:

JanM
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:12 pm

Re: Downgrading DI2 Firmware

Postby JanM » Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:14 pm

This thread helped a lot, thanks.
I have recompiled all the steps with some extra context into page, hope it may help someone in the future https://github.com/janmarques/di2-downgrade

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users