Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery


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AUbicycles
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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:46 am

The majority of the Amazon review for the Fly6 are positive.

I went through some of the critical reviews and also the discussion on the reviews. I started putting thought into it however realise that this wont really add any value to the discussion. Cycliq products are probably not right for you CKinnard and that's OK. There are other options out there - each with their pros and cons.


Christopher

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby CKinnard » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:22 am

Cycliq products are not right for me and 1/3 of buyers who wrote critical reviews on amazon, a high rate to an impartial mind. But eAch to his own.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby Comedian » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:23 pm

AUbicycles wrote:The majority of the Amazon review for the Fly6 are positive.

I went through some of the critical reviews and also the discussion on the reviews. I started putting thought into it however realise that this wont really add any value to the discussion. Cycliq products are probably not right for you CKinnard and that's OK. There are other options out there - each with their pros and cons.


Christopher

You know.. I think the problem is not that the batteries are built it and that they aren't interchangeable. The problem is they don't last very long. I think I'd be prepared to accept that I couldn't replace the battery - if I thought that I would get at the very least two years out of them.

Unfortunately though - my experience has been that if you use the fly6 daily, and do some longer rides with it you'll likely find that the tail light that lasted for 6 hours when it was new is only doing 2 hours after 9 months or so. Unfortunately this does not match what I need and I don't think it's fair to expect me to accept it either.

Overall I think the Cyliq product is really excellent, but this is the area where they need to do some thinking. So, I guess if I were Cycliq I'd be investigating whether they could make the units with removable batteries (I know this is problematic) - or investigating higher quality batteries that last longer.

The verdict is still out on the fly12. It's an excellent device. However, if it won't last for a normal ride after 12 or 18 months I won't be buying another one.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby ValleyForge » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:35 pm

I do love device convergence, but that's why I have a Garmin, a phone, rechargeable batteries in my tail light and Ay-Ups. And a Virb cam on my MTB. Not a case of "one fails, all fail".
I grew up in the 80s - an age when battery life was paramount with phones & laptops. 12hrs of standby from a mobile phone was exciting.
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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby Comedian » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:05 pm

ValleyForge wrote:I do love device convergence, but that's why I have a Garmin, a phone, rechargeable batteries in my tail light and Ay-Ups. And a Virb cam on my MTB. Not a case of "one fails, all fail".
I grew up in the 80s - an age when battery life was paramount with phones & laptops. 12hrs of standby from a mobile phone was exciting.

So, my iPhone has been a bit off colour. I'd say the battery is working to 60-70% of it's potential. So I took it into the store. They ran their diagnostics. The answer was it was still testing ok, but had done 660 full cycles. They said they expected them to exceed 600 so I'd done OK.

If my Fly6 tail light got 600+ full cycles I'd think it would be lasting 4 years, not 9 months. Interesting.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby ValleyForge » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:17 pm

I can't imagine how many cycles my Ay-Ups have been through now that I think about it. They still crack out 4hrs on full.
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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby CKinnard » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:18 pm

My approach to bringing innovative electrical tech to market, especially in the Fly 6 and 12 price bracket, would be to ensure R&D processes are robust enough to protect brand name, and err towards more battery run time and life than expected.

I think that is far more important than aiming for a product that is 15% smaller, 10% lighter., and 5% cheaper.

In this day and age, customer feedback is more public and rapid than the pre social media age, and I it is dismissed at one's peril. I appreciate there's no shortage of business advisors that recommend adopting Apple's business model of getting product prematurely to market, then improving it in later versions....but that's Apple!

For the record, I am a partner in the dev't of a new RFID ID card that integrates several functions. We initially were going to spec it ourselves, but are now going to custom spec for 2 nationals and 1 multi-national. If we'd adopted Apple's model, we'd not have got as far as we have.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby Comedian » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:10 pm

ValleyForge wrote:I can't imagine how many cycles my Ay-Ups have been through now that I think about it. They still crack out 4hrs on full.

Exactly. It's possible.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:54 am

Battery life is probably the biggest challenge for portable consumer electronics.

In my view, Cycliq have not ignored product development and testing - I was able to beta test a number of their products and sosaw the work involved in improving and getting the products ready for market. For the Fly12, following the crowdfunding, they needed to go through significant changes / modifications to various parts to get it market ready so had to delay the launch.

The value of this discussion is that Cycliq will see it and evaluate the important of replaceable batteries or increased battery life (and price). I don't know what the end result will be but when I consider the engagement of Cycliq with customers and their customer service, I would rate them above all other sport action camera brands with who I have had contact and above the majority of other bike brands out there.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby Comedian » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:05 am

AUbicycles wrote:Battery life is probably the biggest challenge for portable consumer electronics.

In my view, Cycliq have not ignored product development and testing - I was able to beta test a number of their products and sosaw the work involved in improving and getting the products ready for market. For the Fly12, following the crowdfunding, they needed to go through significant changes / modifications to various parts to get it market ready so had to delay the launch.

The value of this discussion is that Cycliq will see it and evaluate the important of replaceable batteries or increased battery life (and price). I don't know what the end result will be but when I consider the engagement of Cycliq with customers and their customer service, I would rate them above all other sport action camera brands with who I have had contact and above the majority of other bike brands out there.

I've been amazed by Cycliq. They clearly put a lot of work and testing into their devices. Sometimes as consumers we don't get to see this, and it's been a been quite interesting to follow. I applaud their transparency.

The key issue here is people will accept no replaceable batteries in cheap devices that aren't expected to have a long lifespan. The cycliq products do not fit that category. They are quite expensive. People need them to last multiple years.

As to how you test for battery life when the product development cycle is so short I don't know.

If we look at exposure lights.. their low end entries have sealed units, but the more expensive ones replaceable batteries. None the less, on my experience the cheap ones will continue to perform well for 2 or three years. That's very acceptable. So, it's possible.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby A_P » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:19 pm

I have AyUps, have used them extensively on road, bush, commuting, head torch etc.
After 10years the batteries have finally given up. New batteries are available, not cheap, but if i get another 10yr out of them i wont be complaining.
My gen1 fly6 lasts nearly 45mins, less if its cold..
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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby biker jk » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:04 pm

Comedian wrote:
If we look at exposure lights.. their low end entries have sealed units, but the more expensive ones replaceable batteries. None the less, on my experience the cheap ones will continue to perform well for 2 or three years. That's very acceptable. So, it's possible.


I have an Exposure Lights Strada from 2009. It doesn't have a replaceable battery. However, the battery is still going strong and I'm getting close to the original 3 hours on maximum setting. Even so, I much prefer replaceable batteries on all my devices. My Lezyne frotn light came with replaceable batteries and I bought some Panasonics with 40% more capacity.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby trailgumby » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:14 pm

if they are using quality batteries in the lights, it indicates to me that something is up with the charging.

My warranty replacement is the Gen 2 version with the revised strap (velcro). So far so good, but so was the last one.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby CKinnard » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:48 pm

AUbicycles wrote:The majority of the Amazon review for the Fly6 are positive.

I went through some of the critical reviews and also the discussion on the reviews. I started putting thought into it however realise that this wont really add any value to the discussion.

Christopher


If you read through the Amazon reviews more impartially, you'll note many if not most of the positive reviews were written in the first few weeks or months of ownership. The negative reviews are written on the whole after failures, naturally.....and many were compounded by unsatisfactory communication with Cycliq.

It's hard to see this is as anything other than providing product with a battery/circuitry inadequate in quality or capacity. Maybe Peukert's effect has been underestimated, especially considering the magnitude of reduced performance in cold weather, something not as pervasive in GoPro reviews, GoPro being the camera of choice for snow sports.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:57 am

CKinnard wrote:If you read through the Amazon reviews more impartially, you'll note many if not most of the positive reviews were written in the first few weeks or months of ownership. The negative reviews are written on the whole after failures, naturally.....and many were compounded by unsatisfactory communication with Cycliq.


This discussion is going around in circles and the benefit I have when I consider other reviews is my first-hand experience.

You have demonstrated that you are not satisfied with their product offering and anticipated customer service - so I don't believe that Cycliq products are right for you.

Christopher

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby Comedian » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:51 am

AUbicycles wrote:
CKinnard wrote:If you read through the Amazon reviews more impartially, you'll note many if not most of the positive reviews were written in the first few weeks or months of ownership. The negative reviews are written on the whole after failures, naturally.....and many were compounded by unsatisfactory communication with Cycliq.


This discussion is going around in circles and the benefit I have when I consider other reviews is my first-hand experience.

You have demonstrated that you are not satisfied with their product offering and anticipated customer service - so I don't believe that Cycliq products are right for you.

Christopher

Round and round I agree! :mrgreen:

Yes, if Ckinnard is concerned he should look at hybrid solutions. Interestingly - I've found Cycliq really good to deal with

On the other side of the fence, you've got people like me who were backers of both the fly6 and the fly12. I do love the devices as I think it shows that they were designed for our purpose.

It's just that I've had the battery fail in the fly6 original, and the fly6 gen2. Both of which were replaced under warranty (bravo cycliq). However, we're now at a point where the battery in the original has failed again.

I'll bow out of this to stop the circular nature of this discussion. Just if Cycliq are reading this - I think your top priority should be battery durability going forward. Number one. If I'm paying $200+ for a rear tail light/camera, and $500+ for a front light/camera it needs to hold reasonable battery life for at least two years of regular use.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby CKinnard » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:40 am

AUbicycles wrote:You have demonstrated that you are not satisfied with their product offering and anticipated customer service - so I don't believe that Cycliq products are right for you.

Christopher


Considering your 'relationship' with Cycliq, what insight can you provide into their plans to improve the 'battery issue' more than one BNA member has written about here?

As for what's right for me, I think this Amazon summarizes why I have the view I do. Let's hope the customer got more than 10 months out of the replacement unit.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-revi ... B00QX38E1A

" 4.0 out of 5 stars Not perfect, but the best rear camera yet for cycling., January 3, 2015
By
Cook
This review is from: Fly6 HD Camera and Rear LED Light Combo (Sports)
I got one of these as a Christmas gift, and while I've only had it for a few weeks, I absolutely love the device. It's a great way to get video of what's happening behind you on a ride. It doesn't take as high-quality video as a camera-specific action cam, but the compact size, stellar battery life, and built-in light make it hands-down the best solution for a rear-camera on a bike (as of writing this in January 2015). Here are a few key points about the device:

Pros:
-Good video quality: I'm going to put a qualifier on this statement: This is a safety device first. It will not replace a GoPro (or similar) for high quality videos. That being said, the video quality is very good despite only being 720p. The sensor handles varying light conditions well (although it does suffer from a fair amount of lens flare if there's a bright light shining directly into it) and it takes very crisp video.
-Great battery life: This speaks for itself. The device gets 6 hours of run-time in high blink mode.
-Bright flasher: At 30 lumens, this is right up there with any other rear light on the market. It also has dimmer modes so you don't blind you buddies when you're riding in a group.
-Easy to use: Not much to say here. It's got two easy-to-press buttons and a loud beep for a battery indicator. Also, you don't have to worry about formatting the memory card before every ride because it will just overwrite the oldest files once the card gets full.

Cons:
-Seatpost Mount Only: Unfortunately, the mount for the Fly6 only supports mounting to a seat post. If you're commuting or touring and you use a rack and tail bag or panniers, this will completely block your video. I was able to rig up a mounting solution on my commuter bike by bolting a piece of 1" PVC pipe to the back of my rack and then mounting the Fly6 to that as if it were the seat post. While this works reasonably well, it would be nice if Cycliq took bike racks into account and offered a mounting solution for this.

Here's a short clip taken on my first ride with the camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gubq4Pl ... Aww29rvKCA

Update: I've decided to update my review after using the camera for a solid 4 months. I still really like the camera, and wouldn't hesitate to buy it again, but I'm getting more and more annoyed by the mount. After several months of sliding the camera in and out of the mount, it no longer holds the camera as rigidly as it once did. It's not in any danger of falling off, but a slight rattle has developed that diminishes the video recording slightly and the sound recording significantly. I've decided to reduce my review from 5 stars to 4 simply because of the mount. I really wish they had come up with a more robust mounting solution. I know it can be done, just look at GoPro's mounting method for a good robust camera mount.

Update 2: After 10 months of use, the camera died on me. It wouldn't turn on unless it was plugged in (I think the battery came disconnected internally). It was never dropped, just normal vibration from riding and the occasional speed bump or pothole. I'm keeping my review at 4 starts though because Cycliq's customer support was great. They sent a replacement unit my way as soon as I sent them the tracking number for the original unit. As a side note, they've partially addressed the issue with the mount in the newer unit by beefing up the plastic mount some. The new one also came with a note discussing the mount issue and recommending that you remove the mount along with the light instead of sliding the light in and out."

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby Dodgy-Knee » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:49 pm

Remember that the Fly6 will run very happily connected to an external rechargeable USB battery. I went out for a 5 hr ride on the weekend with my original v1 Fly6 (I was a backer) and recorded the entire ride.... just plug in the battery to the Fly6 USB port, press and HOLD the power switch for a few seconds until the camera starts recording (VERY IMPORTANT) and off you go.

I was also a backer for the Fly12 ... so far, its working brilliantly though I only use the camera and rely on a 300 lumen light that I've been using for years (also USB rechargeable and works perfectly) ... I would hope that if/when it comes to it, I could use the same trick as per the Fly6.

I worked out all of the above by myself ... I contacted Cycliq but never received any help ... I think the general agreement is that the products are great but the after-sales support isn't quite there... they're a young company so hopefully this will get better.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby biker jk » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:11 pm

A replaceable battery is a business decision as is the quality of the battery once a decision to have a non-replaceable battery is made. Presumably, the decision to go non-replaceable is a cost cutting exercise since there would be more expense in making the battery compartment watertight. Personally, I'd prefer a replaceable battery.

I believe the product testing of the prototypes is poor. The second generation Fly6 mount with the rubber straps was always going to be a failure. This should have been picked up at the testing stage. I have broken four straps and mount the plastic mount on the camera wore out from frequent swapping between bikes. Cycliq then suggested that the whole camera with the mount be swapped between bikes. It should have been obvious that the plastic would wear based on how hard it was to insert and remove the camera from the mount.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby CKinnard » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:08 pm

Dodgy-Knee wrote:Remember that the Fly6 will run very happily connected to an external rechargeable USB battery.is that the products are great but the after-sales support isn't quite there... they're a young company so hopefully this will get better.


Hey Dodgy, I'd love to see a pic of your setup, and battery/cable details.

BTW, GoPro's can be charged and record simultaneously via their supplied cable, as long as the external charging source is 5V, 1A. Fly owners who have a GoPro might test its cable.

I recalled today that several years ago a mate got his Garmin 510 simultaneously charging and recording via an external battery using a "host mode cable". I presume the same is required for Dodgy's set up.

Another cable that might work is OTG USB (on the go), which is a modified host mode cable that allows both ends to be either host or slave.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:22 am

From the "Video Camera, do you use one?" thread, external power sources are explicitly not recommended by Cycliq. See if you can locate the post. (I personally don't mind what you do, just encourage you to be safe and informed).

CKinnard wrote:Considering your 'relationship' with Cycliq, what insight can you provide into their plans to improve the 'battery issue' more than one BNA member has written about here?


It is no secret that I like the Australian brand Cycliq, however don't have any special info. I have a connection with the brand as the operater of BNA which is a relevant website publisher (product announcements / reviews) and they have also supported me (via BNA) by providing product for charity fundraising (Black Dog Institute Charity - mental health). As already noted, I beta tested some of their products and provided direct feedback prior to the release.

In my opinion, it is likely that they know of this thread and the interest in a removable battery and battery lifespan but I can only speculate as to their next steps.

Cheers
Christopher

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby Dodgy-Knee » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:31 pm

AUbicycles wrote:From the "Video Camera, do you use one?" thread, external power sources are explicitly not recommended by Cycliq. See if you can locate the post. (I personally don't mind what you do, just encourage you to be safe and informed).
Cheers
Christopher


Yes I've come across that thread and it seems to be unfounded. My Fly6 works perfectly and I can get hours of recording from it ... My seat hasn't caught fire, I haven't lost a kneecap in some unexpected explosion and all is right in the world of bike vs motorist.

+1 safe, +1 informed, +++1 skeptical of sales pitches and 'flat-earth' warnings :)

Also - to CKinnard: I will post some pics of my setup asap ... my bike is in the LBS for a tune up so give me a day or two and I'll hopefully get some pics up. There's not a lot to see though... just a USB cable running from the external battery, threaded under and through the seat and then into the Fly6.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby CKinnard » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:47 pm

Dodgy, I was interested to see how you keep water out.
Also, if you have the details of the cable you bought. I'm interested to know if it is a host mode cable variant.

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Re: Replace fly6 1st Generation Battery

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:45 am

Dodgy-Knee wrote:+1 safe, +1 informed, +++1 skeptical of sales pitches and 'flat-earth' warnings :)


I wouldn't view it as a sales pitch regarding external battery power, more along the lines of liability and responsibility if used in an unintended matter and ensuring compatibility.

If your mod works - good stuff.

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