Chain Outlasts Casette!

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:05 pm

ok - so moving on from: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=89998

Put on new cassette (Shim 105), new chain (Wipperman Connex11SX - stainless & top model), new chainrings (Shimano 105 hollowtech 2).
New lube - dumonde tech, wiping every ride & re-applying when necessary.

So now my chain started to skip on a few cogs - here we go again....
but, upon inspection - its *barely* worn, but the cassette sure is stuffed! (rounded teeth & the usual folded over teeth.)

So I put on a new cassette & all is well!
So got me thinking... Too much wear?

But now i'm thinking about my riding....
I'm 92Kg - its 100% commuting.
45k's a day with 950m of climbing!
My average cadence is probably around the 80's...
LOTS of stops & starts.

Here's the route details - topography & speeds & powah...
Image

I'm starting to think i'm just *too powerful* for any groupset & this is what I should be expecting!?!
Anyone else with similar patterns?

mikgit
Posts: 762
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby mikgit » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:29 pm

what cogs are you wearing out? are you cross chaining like a monster?
I just clocked up 4000km on my current chain/cassette, lubed the chain once so far.

i did wreck 2 cassettes on one of my mtb's las year, bent the 2nd (biggest) cog on one, the third on the other, gave the hanger a tweek (OMGosh that was scary on my beloved titanium frame) and no issues since.

also when you hit a hill are you smoothly changing as you go, or is it grrr grrr can't push the gear any more-> shift?
Look 675 Pro Team, Cervelo R3, GT Xizang, GT Zaskar, Scott Spark 710, Yeti ARC, DiamondBack Apex

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:52 pm

nah - no basic errors like that...
wearing out 5th to 7th mostly.
smooth changing of course

mikgit wrote:what cogs are you wearing out? are you cross chaining like a monster?
I just clocked up 4000km on my current chain/cassette, lubed the chain once so far.

i did wreck 2 cassettes on one of my mtb's las year, bent the 2nd (biggest) cog on one, the third on the other, gave the hanger a tweek (OMGosh that was scary on my beloved titanium frame) and no issues since.

also when you hit a hill are you smoothly changing as you go, or is it grrr grrr can't push the gear any more-> shift?

BJL
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby BJL » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:36 am

I weigh about the same as you (well, a little more now). My bike has the 5700 105 groupset and because of where I live, I ride in the hills a lot. I'm on my second cassette for this bike. The first one lasted 4 chains and approx 16,000kms.

Nobody
Posts: 8966
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nobody » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:18 am

Nate wrote:...but the cassette sure is stuffed! (rounded teeth & the usual folded over teeth.)


Nate wrote:nah - no basic errors like that...
wearing out 5th to 7th mostly.
smooth changing of course


Thought about getting bigger chainwheel(s) so pushing the cassette use to the bigger cogs and spreading the load over more teeth?
Last edited by Nobody on Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
MichaelB
Posts: 9250
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:22 am

Got pics of the damaged teeth ?

I'm heavier (+5kg), do a fair bit of climbing, but the chain (new in late June 2016) and already used cassette (Ultegra 11-28 and one chain before with 6,000km) has done 3,400km and about 30,000m of climbing without an issue.

I had been running a dry lube that got washed out on several rides, so wasn't best looking after :roll: , and I tend to be lazier than you re maintenance.

I'm not a powerhouse, but don't have meter to prove it, but really surpriosed that new cassete died so quick :?:

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:44 pm

MichaelB wrote:Got pics of the damaged teeth ?

I'm heavier (+5kg), do a fair bit of climbing, but the chain (new in late June 2016) and already used cassette (Ultegra 11-28 and one chain before with 6,000km) has done 3,400km and about 30,000m of climbing without an issue.

but really surpriosed that new cassete died so quick :?:



no pics - tossed it already :\ Will keep them next time (which wont be long!)
30,000m of climbing? that's 1.5 months of riding for me.

yeah i'm surprised too - hence i'm here!

cant find a good pic - but this image:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0WkAu60hXQI/T ... ockets.JPG
shows the little folded over bits of the teeth nicely. (but it was NOT that bad!)

also the fact that its really confined to a few teeth leads me to believe it is due to actual wear & not abuse - as there'd be issues elsewhere.
will see if i can up my cadence & track that over the next few months

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:45 pm

Nobody wrote:Thought about getting bigger chainwheel(s) so pushing the cassette use to the bigger cogs and spreading the load over more teeth?


i did!
know where i can get a bigger than 53 ring?

The better option would be to increase cadence & reduce max force on the cassette me thinks!

Nobody
Posts: 8966
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nobody » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:28 pm

Nate wrote:i did!
know where i can get a bigger than 53 ring?

You can get bigger, but they aren't going to be cheap. Not that chainrings are cheap in general anyway.
http://www.wiggle.com.au/ta-130-pcd-alize-outer-chainrings-57-61t/

Nate wrote:The better option would be to increase cadence & reduce max force on the cassette me thinks!

If you're happy to become more of a spinner, then this thread probably isn't needed.
Last edited by Nobody on Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Warin
Posts: 615
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:13 pm

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Warin » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:19 pm

Nate wrote:But now i'm thinking about my riding....
I'm 92Kg - its 100% commuting.


LOTS of stops & starts.


Humm ... when you stop are you in a big ring on the cassette? .. or one of the smaller rings - the ones that are distorting?

My thinking is that when you start off, your stamping on the pedals and putting a lot of strain on few teeth on the cassette? :?:

Some times you cannot avoid stopping and have to deal with what ever gear your in .. be carefull then with the power you put through the pedals.

User avatar
MichaelB
Posts: 9250
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:47 am

Nate wrote: ....30,000m of climbing? that's 1.5 months of riding for me.

....


Geez, make me feel really inadquate .... :oops:






:wink:

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:15 pm

MichaelB wrote:Geez, make me feel really inadquate .... :oops: :wink:


soz mate ;)
but that's my point - i'm starting to think my usage case is a little different to most.


Humm ... when you stop are you in a big ring on the cassette? .. or one of the smaller rings - the ones that are distorting?
My thinking is that when you start off, your stamping on the pedals and putting a lot of strain on few teeth on the cassette? :?:


yeah thats the case a lot of the time, used to ride a single(& dual speed) - so 2-3 spins in a higher gear & i'm off.

Whats the bet my next thread is.... "how come my gear cables only last 6 months before fraying" :P

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:17 pm

Nobody wrote:If you're happy to become more of a spinner, then this thread probably isn't needed.


The thread is here to try & get some data...
All that's typically provided is distances when it comes to component wear - which may be VERY inadequate depending on the style of riding.

If i can get a comparison of someone same weight, same climbing % & same start/stopping - then that would be perfect (& the only true apples-apples comparison) to compare my wear rates & set expectations.

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:34 pm

argh!
cassette & chain are stuffed... another 3 months :/

Been focusing on keeping cadence 80-90 & spinning much more.
lubing has been consistent, wiping all the time & re-lubing to ensure there's never any noise. Also cleaning every 2 weeks.

new rings, new cassette, new chain... commuting is an expensive cycle :/
will keep an extensive log this time & see what we can find!

User avatar
Derny Driver
Posts: 2400
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm
Location: Wollongong

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:40 am

Nate wrote:argh!
... Also cleaning every 2 weeks.

That's your problem right there

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:58 pm

Derny Driver wrote:That's your problem right there


The problem is removing all the sandy grit & old lube from my chain, and putting in clean fresh stuff?

I ride in anything & its 100% commute - so there's HEAPS of grit & garbage in my chain, even with full fenders.

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 7077
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Duck! » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:22 am

If you lube your chain appropriately it's not necessary to aggressively clean it.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

ironhanglider
Posts: 2373
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:44 pm
Location: Middle East, Melbourne

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:22 pm

Nate wrote:
The problem is removing all the sandy grit & old lube from my chain, and putting in clean fresh stuff?

I ride in anything & its 100% commute - so there's HEAPS of grit & garbage in my chain, even with full fenders.


I've noticed a big improvement in my chain grit levels since the addition of a mud flap to the bottom of the front guard. I made mine out of an old milk bottle. It is too early to tell when it comes to wear rates, but I have higher hopes.

Cheers,

Cameron
Image

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 4299
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Thoglette » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:13 am

Nate wrote:The problem is removing all the sandy grit & old lube from my chain, and putting in clean fresh stuff?

I've long since converted to the old fashioned hot-wax method. The chain still gets covered in black dust (car tyre and brake pad) but nothing else sticks. Downtube is covered in crap but the chain is not.

I rewax at the first sign of squeakiness (usually 500km) and chain joiners last about five waxings. Carry a spare joiner!

Key learning for me: change your wax mix with the seasons. Add surfboard "winter wax" when it gets cold and hard candle wax in summer.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:49 pm

ironhanglider wrote:I've noticed a big improvement in my chain grit levels since the addition of a mud flap to the bottom of the front guard. I made mine out of an old milk bottle. It is too early to tell when it comes to wear rates, but I have higher hopes.
Cheers,
Cameron


yeah thinking of adding something there, or even fabricating a chainguard to really keep everything out. Full fenders arent 100% & there's still a lot of crap coming from all around the fender.

ironhanglider
Posts: 2373
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:44 pm
Location: Middle East, Melbourne

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby ironhanglider » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:58 pm

Nate wrote:
ironhanglider wrote:I've noticed a big improvement in my chain grit levels since the addition of a mud flap to the bottom of the front guard. I made mine out of an old milk bottle. It is too early to tell when it comes to wear rates, but I have higher hopes.
Cheers,
Cameron


yeah thinking of adding something there, or even fabricating a chainguard to really keep everything out. Full fenders arent 100% & there's still a lot of crap coming from all around the fender.


My high tech solution was to cut out a shape, drill two holes in it and the bottom of the guard, and attach it with a couple of short bolts. It was intended as a proof of concept rather than the final outcome, but it works well enough that I'm just going to leave it there till it breaks.

Cheers,

Cameron
Image

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:25 pm

ironhanglider wrote:My high tech solution was to cut out a shape, drill two holes in it and the bottom of the guard, and attach it with a couple of short bolts. It was intended as a proof of concept rather than the final outcome, but it works well enough that I'm just going to leave it there till it breaks.

Cheers,

Cameron


pics?

ironhanglider
Posts: 2373
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:44 pm
Location: Middle East, Melbourne

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby ironhanglider » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:12 pm

Image

It's not pretty but it seems to be working. I've used bolts with a big flat head for tyre clearance and load distribution. A better version would be with flatter nuts and trimming the excess bolt off with a Dremel, because there is a toe clearance issue, but it is doing the job for the moment.

Cheers,

Cameron
Image

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:28 pm

ironhanglider wrote:It's not pretty but it seems to be working. I've used bolts with a big flat head for tyre clearance and load distribution. A better version would be with flatter nuts and trimming the excess bolt off with a Dremel, because there is a toe clearance issue, but it is doing the job for the moment.
Cheers,
Cameron


NICE!
I can recommend pop rivets & some washers - always work well on fenders

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3200
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Chain Outlasts Casette!

Postby Nate » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:31 pm

OK - some really interesting news & results...

I got 4,000km out of the last setup!!! & NO skipping of gears.
Ref: http://bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic ... 8&start=50

I was previously only getting about 3,000km per set.

So i've been doing some things a bit differently:
- higher cadence: spin more & grind less, took a while to get used to - but maintaining a 80-95 rpm as much as possible. back in the day it was 60's- 70's (pushing a 53-17 single speed for years)
- changed lube... i'll post up on this one. The magic formula... Auto Trans fluid!

What was really interesting this time is that the chain never skipped over the cogs once. But there was heaps of play when bending/flexing the chain left/right - so i'd have to shift 2 gears at a time & then flick back. The side plates were that worn out!
There was also the usual folding of the cassette teeth after about 2,000km too!

I'll be doing a vid review of lubricants & i've also torn down the chain - so will get a microscope out & show the wear on plates & pins.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users