troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

cooperplace
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troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby cooperplace » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:59 pm

I've got one of these that I use on the front of my road bike, on a 180mm disc so it should be really powerful. I bought it a couple of years ago but I've never got it to work properly. When I first installed it, I found that I could only get an acceptable lack of lever free play by adjusting the slack with a cable adjuster, which I did.

By the way, there was nothing in the instructions to say that this was wrong. Of course this stopped the actuating lever from fully returning to its correct position and eventually the unit got air in it.

I took it off and bled it, and bled it, and bled it. I've bled it on the bike, and off the bike. I've pushed about 250mls of mineral oil thru it, and still I can't get an acceptable lack of lever free play. There is plenty of meat left on the pads. It's as if the automatic pad wear adjustment isn't working.

I've now removed it from the bike and I'm using an Avid BB7 which works MUCH BETTER, which it shouldn't.

On the plus side, it's much easier to align than the BB7, which is a pain. But the lever comes in to the handlebars.

Does anyone know how I can get the Hy/Rd to work properly?
Please be nice to me, I'm not very bright.

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Nate
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby Nate » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:50 pm

yeah feel you....
i have the spyre on the back & i LOVE it so much more.

you need to change where the cable is routed, to the INSIDE of the caliper & not the outside. That'll give you more movement - but you'll need to increase the force on the lever to actuate the pads.
you put the cable through the caliper & where it gets held in by the nut - you put it on the other side & flip the nut around.
Then 1/2 way through the pads I insert 2 spacers from aluminium cans to get the thickness back up too.

Those two are the ONLY ways i've found to be happy with the caliper :\

no pad adjustment - poor poor choice in design.

cooperplace
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby cooperplace » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:59 pm

I've done two things to improve it:
-the flip of the cable so that it's further up the actuation arm; altho' I'm not happy about using a hacksaw to cut a notch in the arm; and
- I bought some much longer soft plastic bleed hoses, so I've been able to put the unit in lots of different orientations while bleeding it; this enabled me to get more air out.

The result is better, with a less spongy lever, but it's still not as good as the Shimano hydraulic discs on my el-cheapo mountain bike.
Please be nice to me, I'm not very bright.

jackthelad
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby jackthelad » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:09 am

Throw it away
TRP, do not make good disc Brakes
my freind has a Giant TCX, with mechanical TRP Cables,
Pain in the arse to adjust, squeals when turning etc
Coming from Avid Tri Align system, with 3 bikes with avid brakes
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Nate
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby Nate » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:06 pm

jackthelad wrote:Throw it away
TRP, do not make good disc Brakes
my freind has a Giant TCX, with mechanical TRP Cables,
Pain in the arse to adjust, squeals when turning etc
Coming from Avid Tri Align system, with 3 bikes with avid brakes


That's of no help at all.
"go & buy a new bike" isnt a response to helping anyone on anything

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Nate
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby Nate » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:09 pm

cooperplace wrote:I've done two things to improve it:
-the flip of the cable so that it's further up the actuation arm; altho' I'm not happy about using a hacksaw to cut a notch in the arm;


I didnt need to do this - i routed the cable on the other side of the bolt & then rotated the retention nut thingy - so the cable still ran through it. so its 100% solid & not just pressing against it.

Really thinking i'll change to full Mech, I currently run it on the back & its SOOO much better - easy pad adjust (you can actually adjust pads!) and much better bite as you can adjust so that its always contacting at the start of lever pull & dont have to keep adding shims.

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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby jackthelad » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:58 pm

Nate wrote:
jackthelad wrote:Throw it away
TRP, do not make good disc Brakes
my freind has a Giant TCX, with mechanical TRP Cables,
Pain in the arse to adjust, squeals when turning etc
Coming from Avid Tri Align system, with 3 bikes with avid brakes


That's of no help at all.
"go & buy a new bike" isn't a response to helping anyone on anything


Go Full Mechanical or Hydraulic
i didn't realise this was the Hybrid POS, that is a cable to Hydro, conversion
too much to go wrong, as both systems work different, Cable stretch/ strength etc will make a diference
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby Duck! » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:45 pm

jackthelad wrote:Throw it away
TRP, do not make good disc Brakes
my freind has a Giant TCX, with mechanical TRP Cables,
Pain in the arse to adjust, squeals when turning etc
Coming from Avid Tri Align system, with 3 bikes with avid brakes

Then you'd be well familiar with rubbish brakes....
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby jackthelad » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:23 pm

Duck! wrote:
jackthelad wrote:Throw it away
TRP, do not make good disc Brakes
my freind has a Giant TCX, with mechanical TRP Cables,
Pain in the arse to adjust, squeals when turning etc
Coming from Avid Tri Align system, with 3 bikes with avid brakes

Then you'd be well familiar with rubbish brakes....



SORRY
Dont Know what your talking about
my original BB7's are still going strong, never serviced, in the spares box now...
my 2 pairs of Elixer CR's Work Perfectly
My XX World Cups Rock, Sadly magnesium version, so only allowed to use organic pads
My XO Brakes, work really well
Never had more issue,other than i'm a lazy f**k at changing Pads
I'm not a brand Whore, just means i only have to have the same pads for all these brakes....
All these brakes range over the "Bad Era " of "Avid" not "Sram"
And have never had to send them anywhere for warranty issues
i think half the issues coming from improper bleeding technique,
where u remove the pads and use the Brake Block, given to you when you buy the brakes..
where some people dont use them and just use use the pad spacer,
which does not account for Pad wear and auto adjustment of the master Cylinder
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cooperplace
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby cooperplace » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:29 am

Nate wrote:
cooperplace wrote:I've done two things to improve it:
-the flip of the cable so that it's further up the actuation arm; altho' I'm not happy about using a hacksaw to cut a notch in the arm;


I didnt need to do this - i routed the cable on the other side of the bolt & then rotated the retention nut thingy - so the cable still ran through it. so its 100% solid & not just pressing against it.

Really thinking i'll change to full Mech, I currently run it on the back & its SOOO much better - easy pad adjust (you can actually adjust pads!) and much better bite as you can adjust so that its always contacting at the start of lever pull & dont have to keep adding shims.

interesting; cutting the notch in the actuating arm to move the cable in closer is recommended by TRP, but I'm not happy with it.
Please be nice to me, I'm not very bright.

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MichaelB
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby MichaelB » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:27 am

Nate wrote: That's of no help at all.
"go & buy a new bike" isnt a response to helping anyone on anything


That's why he's on an ignore list :D

I hope you get it to work, but from what I see you write, it seems like an issue of bleeding and/or contaminated pads.

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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby cooperplace » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:59 am

Hi Michael,
Yes I've got it to work now but it's been quite an education for me. I like the Hy/Rd because it (potentially) offers strong and easily modulated braking coupled with very quick & easy setup. The BB7 -the only other disc caliper I've used- also works well but setup is a time-consuming royal pain in the butt, and it can be very, very hard to get right.

The problem was fixed by fitting new pads and breaking them in. And I've done the modification to the actuation arm, as at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aBa3sGUUhs

All is good now. The required lever force is higher but I can live with that.

However, the old pads still had 1.4mm of material left on them, with a recommended minimum of 0.8mm, so they should have been fine. This was measured using my micrometer. There is zero contamination on them: they have never had a drop of oil/brake fluid/cleaning fluid on them. Other users here have commented that shims are needed to compensate as the pads wear, an unsatisfactory state of affairs. Clearly I'm a slow learner in not adopting this practice earlier.

There are two other important issues:
(i) the short stiff tubing in the standard Tektro/TRP bleed kit is all wrong in my opinion. Using instead 1m of flexible plastic tubing ($1 at Mitre 10), I can rotate and re-orientate the caliper during bleeding. I got a big bubble of air out this way.
(ii) prior to fitting new pads, I tried re-installing the old pads and riding it. Result: grave danger! Virtually zero braking! On checking, it turns out they have worn unevenly, front-to-back. So if I flipped them on re-install, ie, put the L in the RHS, then the braking would be down to just an edge of the pad, the full area wouldn't be making contact. I think this is what happened. So from now on I'll mark these L and R at the time of installation and re-install same way after any removal.

I should mention that mine is one of the very earliest Hy/Rd calipers, I don't know how the later units perform.

I think that the Hy/Rd could be substantially improved by:

(a) TRP fixing their ability to self-adjust;
(b) TRP providing longer, more flexible tubing in the bleed kit and better instructions on how to bleed;
(c) the instructions including advice to mark the pads L and R at the time of first installation and for users to maintain that pad positioning.

I reject suggestions made by others that the cable/hydraulic hybrid nature of the unit is inherently bad or "has too much to go wrong".
Last edited by cooperplace on Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby cooperplace » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:07 am

Nate wrote:yeah feel you....
i have the spyre on the back & i LOVE it so much more.

you need to change where the cable is routed, to the INSIDE of the caliper & not the outside. That'll give you more movement - but you'll need to increase the force on the lever to actuate the pads.
you put the cable through the caliper & where it gets held in by the nut - you put it on the other side & flip the nut around.
Then 1/2 way through the pads I insert 2 spacers from aluminium cans to get the thickness back up too.

Those two are the ONLY ways i've found to be happy with the caliper :\

no pad adjustment - poor poor choice in design.

so do you just use scissors to cut a piece out of an aluminium can? The wall of an Al drink can is only .005" (or about .13mm) thick, so several would be needed during the working life of a pad.
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby Nate » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:56 pm

cooperplace wrote:so do you just use scissors to cut a piece out of an aluminium can? The wall of an Al drink can is only .005" (or about .13mm) thick, so several would be needed during the working life of a pad.


thats correct.
Its bugger all - but does make a big difference. I've been happy with a single shim - but thought about another just the other day.
Personal preference - i LOVE lots of bite as quick as possible in the early stages.

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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby cooperplace » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:26 pm

Nate wrote:
cooperplace wrote:so do you just use scissors to cut a piece out of an aluminium can? The wall of an Al drink can is only .005" (or about .13mm) thick, so several would be needed during the working life of a pad.


thats correct.
Its bugger all - but does make a big difference. I've been happy with a single shim - but thought about another just the other day.
Personal preference - i LOVE lots of bite as quick as possible in the early stages.


thanks for the tip; that's exactly how I like my brakes.
Please be nice to me, I'm not very bright.

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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby cooperplace » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:29 pm

the darn thing is dragging now, enough for the disc to get warm. I don't know how to stop this. I'd hoped that with breaking in, it would be OK.
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby jackthelad » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:55 pm

There is pad adjustment on them, you use an allen key on both pads... thats how i adjusted my freinds on his TCX
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby cooperplace » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:10 pm

my BB7 has adjustment for each pad but there is no such feature on my Hy/Rd. You might be thinking of the BB7.
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby jackthelad » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:28 pm

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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby cooperplace » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:16 pm

jackthelad wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnO-t50OP4w

exactly. I'm very familiar with the unit and this video. No adjustment screws for the pads.
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby Nate » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:07 am

cooperplace wrote:thanks for the tip; that's exactly how I like my brakes.


Well what an adventure - just bled the brakes last night... there goes 1.5hrs :/
turns out the piston was sticking & the automatic pad adjustment for wear wasnt working - not sure why, maybe a bubble in the wrong place.

bled them twice & got all the spongyness out of them, now they're also not requiring any shims too - feel great & lots of bite at the top of the range.

Either way - SUCH a pain to have to do this, it would've been a 5min job (if that) to adjust mechanical spyre's.
so i'm putting an order in for some spyre's for the front & i'll do a comparison

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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby cooperplace » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:30 pm

Hi Nate,
I hear your pain. I'm thinking mine might have a similar problem. TRP offered to do a service for US$45, which includes:

"a bleed, piston seal lubrication, a pressure test"

but this isn't attractive: I'd have to ship it to the US and I'd have to either not use the bike for however long it takes or fit and align the BB7, which is a pain in the neck. Also I like to do all the work on my bike myself.

I will ask their tech guy for instructions on how to do this myself, and if they provide same, I'll post it here.
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:00 pm

Nate wrote:...not sure why...

Bubble is a possible. So is one of those just so sized bits of crud working it's way into just the wrong place. I've had that with Juicy 7s.
I've no experience with Hy/Rds but one trick I've long used is to lightly tap components with something like a screwdriver handle to help convince any bubbles to move upward.
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cooperplace
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby cooperplace » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:16 pm

yeah, I tried that while bleeding. What really helped was using the long flexible bleed tubes.

I'd like to completely strip it down but I'll wait for a reply from TRP before I do that.
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Re: troubles with a TRP Hy/Rd disc caliper

Postby queequeg » Tue May 01, 2018 10:08 pm

I know this is an old thread, but I just swapped my commuter bike from Avid BB7 over to the TRP hy/rd brakes, using SRAM Rival Levers.

I immediately had the same issues as everyone else with the lever pull, and through further research found that the HY/RD is specifically designed around the cable pull of SLR-EV Shimano Levers, which pull a lot more cable.

If you have older Shimano levers (before DA7900/Ultegra 6700, you’ll have issues, but they are really only designed for 11-sp systems, and Tiagra 4700 (which is SLR-EV).

Anyway, I have just fitted a pair of aftermarket short pull actuator arms, and I now have magnificent braking with the levers coming about half way to the bars under full braking.

Much better than the hacksaw fix I have seen suggested, or the shims behind the pads.

So, if you have SRAM or older shimano levers, or Campag, the replacement arms are perfect.

https://www.amazon.com/Short-Pull-Conve ... B073CCKD85

I ordered direct from the guy who sells them on Amazon (above). Apparently they sell out rather quickly every time he makes more of them.
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