Another Lube Thread

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Tim
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby Tim » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:49 pm

in my view it is very important to keep your chain clean and well lubricated.


It doesn't, make very much difference.
A wipe with a rag and application of any sort of lube. I never touch the cassette or rings.
My cassettes and rings last 20,000km's and chains between 5 and 8000km's.
Yours won't last any longer, nor will you ride any faster.
A shiny clean bike looks nice but I couldn't be bothered.
Bearings are sealed but not very well compared to say automotive bearings.
Constant application of degreaser and water will very likely find it's way into the wheel and free hub bearings, diluting and emulsifying the grease and shortening their life.

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Cardy George
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby Cardy George » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:21 pm

Tim wrote:
in my view it is very important to keep your chain clean and well lubricated.


It doesn't, make very much difference.
A wipe with a rag and application of any sort of lube. I never touch the cassette or rings.
My cassettes and rings last 20,000km's and chains between 5 and 8000km's.
Yours won't last any longer, nor will you ride any faster.
A shiny clean bike looks nice but I couldn't be bothered.
Bearings are sealed but not very well compared to say automotive bearings.
Constant application of degreaser and water will very likely find it's way into the wheel and free hub bearings, diluting and emulsifying the grease and shortening their life.

I'm 100% with Tim on this one.

If my bike was a child I'd be locked up for DECADES for neglect. I originally had a Dura-Ace everything drivetrain, rode in the rain on country roads which were covered in dirt, which turned to mud, and I can't even remember what lube I used, but I reckon it was a cheap dry lube from Big W. I would even run WD-40 on it for a couple of days to clear the crap out.

That drivetrain lasted an easy 15,000km. The only concession I made was to not use Big Ring ($200 a pop, no thanks) but it's dead flat around here, didn't miss it.

I've since put on a 105 level drivetrain, and I've also stumbled upon a spray on dry lube made by WD-40 for 10 smackers a can. Gotta say I'm pretty impressed, to the point the chain seemed cleaner AFTER I rode in the rain the other day.

defy1
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby defy1 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:41 pm

I'd rather ride with a clean drive train and clean bike. Shifts better, less noisy and just generally feels better on a ride. Not sure what kind of bikes you all ride, but any $3000+ road bike I want to keep it on tip top shape, but that's just me.

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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby mikgit » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:12 am

having a clean well maintained drivetrain s a good thing... over cleaing is a bad thing.
Degreasing, you blizt away any of the lube in the rollers of the chain and other places, then you wash that way, but the chance there is some degreaser left, then still some water in there instead of lube, then you put the lube on on top of that.
If you do it periodically and thoroughly, well maintained, if you do it all the time the % chance of leaving crap in there goes up (assuming degrease/wash/lube, not some extensive cleaning/relubing).
Road bike I do when it looks gunky, so maybe 500-1000km depending on conditions (but then I did 3000km on newest bike before a clean and lube) . Mtb probably more like 100-200km or after any really filthy ride.

Thing is, if you're happy doing it, that great, it may make your stuff last forever, might make it last not long, or make no difference (you'd really have to do some testing on how you personally do it over a long time on multiple bikes etc etc).
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Trevtassie
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby Trevtassie » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:15 am

Here's how to be completely anal about your chain...
Get a pot of water, add a bit of dishwashing liquid. Boil it, tip out water, repeat a few times until the water is clean. Last time wipe the chain while it's still hot so the heat dries it out. Drop it on top of a tin of Putoline Chain Wax with a wire handle through the end of the chain. Heat the wax until it's good and liquid. Fairly warm so it's fluid, but not smoking like a chip pan about to catch fire. Stir the chain in the tin for a bit. Carefully pull the chain up and out. Hang above tin in a warm place so the excess wax runs back into the tin. If it's too cold and the wax congeals too quickly use a heat gun to warm the chain from the top down. You will now have a chain lubricated like it was at the factory.
When it starts squeaking use a bit of lube of your choice...

human909
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby human909 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:51 am

Defy The Odds wrote:No, I did not take the cassette off to degrease. I use a light spray on the garden hose not a pressure cleaner.

Oh dear. It sounds like your focus is on how your bike looks not about actual and beneficial maintenance.

Defy The Odds wrote:I have not seen any video or tutorial online that says you need to take the cassette off... why would you need to take the cassette off to degrease it each time?

To avoid getting degreaser into all the parts that don't want degreaser in them. This is pretty much every part that moves on a bike. Including especially the major bearings. (But also other items like the rear derailleur.)

Defy The Odds wrote:Every bit of info I have come across says that keeping your chain clean and well lubricated is the easiest and cheapest way to ensure you have less friction loss therefore save watts. Considering the chain is what keeps the wheels turning (literally) in my view it is very important to keep your chain clean and well lubricated.

Lubing your chain doesn't require what you are doing. Also the benefits are marginal. Chain friction is low and matters far less than your body position on the bike.

Defy The Odds wrote:You leaving your bike out in the rain for 6 months is neglect, in my opinion. Just because nothing failed, does not mean that is neither best practice or even recommended. I would never leave my bike out in the rain....

So your bike is degreaser proof but not waterproof?

I leave my car out in the rain. Is that neglect too?

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Comedian
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby Comedian » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:28 am

I've tried many many lubes. I could list them all, but can't be bothered typing. Briefly all the rock and roll series, lightening, shimano ptfe, park tools, bike mild, all the finish lines etc etc and forum favourites like purple extreme. One time I worked it out and it was up to 20.

I ride a lot of miles. I can't stand having to reapply after 200k (which most of them are). I use a yankee dry lube called dumonde which gives excellent life 5-800k without noise and nice shifting and very very long component life. There were others that were also very good such as motorex and morgan blue.

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Defy The Odds
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby Defy The Odds » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:07 am

human909 wrote:
Defy The Odds wrote:No, I did not take the cassette off to degrease. I use a light spray on the garden hose not a pressure cleaner.

Oh dear. It sounds like your focus is on how your bike looks not about actual and beneficial maintenance.

Defy The Odds wrote:I have not seen any video or tutorial online that says you need to take the cassette off... why would you need to take the cassette off to degrease it each time?

To avoid getting degreaser into all the parts that don't want degreaser in them. This is pretty much every part that moves on a bike. Including especially the major bearings. (But also other items like the rear derailleur.)

Defy The Odds wrote:Every bit of info I have come across says that keeping your chain clean and well lubricated is the easiest and cheapest way to ensure you have less friction loss therefore save watts. Considering the chain is what keeps the wheels turning (literally) in my view it is very important to keep your chain clean and well lubricated.

Lubing your chain doesn't require what you are doing. Also the benefits are marginal. Chain friction is low and matters far less than your body position on the bike.

Defy The Odds wrote:You leaving your bike out in the rain for 6 months is neglect, in my opinion. Just because nothing failed, does not mean that is neither best practice or even recommended. I would never leave my bike out in the rain....

So your bike is degreaser proof but not waterproof?

I leave my car out in the rain. Is that neglect too?



Where did I say it's about how my bike looks not maintenance? This was specifically about maintenance. A clean bike is also a better performing one, in my opinion.

I am no expert, but reading articles online from those in the know suggest cleaning this exact way..they only suggest removing the cassette if it is in need of a thorough clean. Otherwise for general maintenance the way I have gone about it is the recommendation.

Degreaser is sprayed onto the cassette and chain only, not the whole bike. Then light freshwater is sprayed on liberally and cleaned with a rag dry first before lubricating.

Comparing your car to your bike is just silly and void. The bike is completely exposed. I'm sure if you didn't have a roof, bonnet, boot or anything else covering your car the manufacturer would not tell you to leave it outside. Some common sense here wouldn't go astray

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Defy The Odds
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby Defy The Odds » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:14 am

Also, I think my original post got lost in the mix. This was about lubes, and not my cleaning regimen. I do appreciate the feedback from those regarding the lubes they have using and why though

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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby human909 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:00 am

Defy The Odds wrote:Comparing your car to your bike is just silly and void. The bike is completely exposed.

Exposed to what? Water? Water shouldn't be damaging to a bicycle. Particularly if it is just lightly falling from the sky. (High pressure sprayed in the wrong places isn't a good idea.)

What exactly is this damage you are talking about?

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Defy The Odds
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby Defy The Odds » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:09 am

human909 wrote:
Defy The Odds wrote:Comparing your car to your bike is just silly and void. The bike is completely exposed.

Exposed to what? Water? Water shouldn't be damaging to a bicycle. Particularly if it is just lightly falling from the sky. (High pressure sprayed in the wrong places isn't a good idea.)

What exactly is this damage you are talking about?


https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.bicyc ... telstra-au

Prolonged exposure to water can and WILL cause rust to your bike unless you clean it, dry and lube it. And I am talking prolonged here, such as those mentioned above. Carbon may not rust, but your whole bike is not carbon (if you have a carbon bike). Bolts can size (I have seen this), chains can rust and so forth.

It is up to you how you maintain your bike, it's your bike after all, but flaming someone for their cleaning regimen is really unnecessary.

Anyhow can we please stay on topic and revert back go the lubes you use, and why?

Thanks

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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby silentC » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:58 am

Defy The Odds wrote:Also, I think my original post got lost in the mix. This was about lubes, and not my cleaning regimen. I do appreciate the feedback from those regarding the lubes they have using and why though

Unfortunately you have stumbled unwittingly into one of those topics that brings out the forum curmudgeons whenever it comes up. Next thing you know you're bombarded with information about factory grease and bikes that have gone 20,000km with nothing more than a wipe with an oily rag. You will be told that cleaning your drive train is for show ponies and that it will actually shorten the life of your components. Best thing to do is just smile and nod, agree with them if you like, and then just carry on maintaining your bike the way you want to.

I use squirt and I de-grease about once every couple of months. I do try to avoid getting any solvents near the hub or the frame. I usually take the cassette off to do it. I also change my chain about every 5,000km, which is recommended by those who don't adhere to the Methuselah approach. Reasoning behind it is that this produces less wear on the cassette, extending it's life. If you keep the same chain on it too long, when you do put a new chain on you might get some slipping or poor gear changing. This may be more of an issue with modern components, as I replaced the chain on my old '93 roadie a few times but it still had the original cassette when I retired it about 2 years ago.
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Defy The Odds
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby Defy The Odds » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:01 am

silentC wrote:
Defy The Odds wrote:Also, I think my original post got lost in the mix. This was about lubes, and not my cleaning regimen. I do appreciate the feedback from those regarding the lubes they have using and why though

Unfortunately you have stumbled unwittingly into one of those topics that brings out the forum curmudgeons whenever it comes up. Next thing you know you're bombarded with information about factory grease and bikes that have gone 20,000km with nothing more than a wipe with an oily rag. You will be told that cleaning your drive train is for show ponies and that it will actually shorten the life of your components. Best thing to do is just smile and nod, agree with them if you like, and then just carry on maintaining your bike the way you want to.

I use squirt and I de-grease about once every couple of months. I do try to avoid getting any solvents near the hub or the frame. I usually take the cassette off to do it. I also change my chain about every 5,000km, which is recommended by those who don't adhere to the Methuselah approach. Reasoning behind it is that this produces less wear on the cassette, extending it's life. If you keep the same chain on it too long, when you do put a new chain on you might get some slipping or poor gear changing. This may be more of an issue with modern components, as I replaced the chain on my old '93 roadie a few times but it still had the original cassette when I retired it about 2 years ago.


Thanks mate, appreciate the constructive feedback. Do you use Squirt year round or is it a summer only lube for you?

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silentC
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby silentC » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:10 am

Year round for me. Needs to dry for a few minutes before you ride. In wet weather, I clean the drive train a bit more often.
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RonK
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby RonK » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:11 am

Comedian wrote:I've tried many many lubes. I could list them all, but can't be bothered typing. Briefly all the rock and roll series, lightening, shimano ptfe, park tools, bike mild, all the finish lines etc etc and forum favourites like purple extreme. One time I worked it out and it was up to 20.

I ride a lot of miles. I can't stand having to reapply after 200k (which most of them are). I use a yankee dry lube called dumonde which gives excellent life 5-800k without noise and nice shifting and very very long component life. There were others that were also very good such as motorex and morgan blue.

Yes, over the years I've tried most as well.

Most of the current crop of chain lubes are wax-based dry lubricants. Everybody has their favourite brand which of course they swear by, but the formulation and mechanical action is pretty much the same for all of them, and it would come as no particularly surprise to discover than many are actually made in the same factory.

At a glance, Dumonde sounds good - but how much is spin, and how much is fact? Most of the reviews online seem to be made by self-confessed Dumonde lovers. Their web site does not reveal the contents, but says it's a polymer - that suggests to me it's PTFE, better know as Teflon. If that is so, then it is probably no different to Finish Line or Triflow. I tried them years ago, didn't like them much as a chain lube, but still use a bit of Triflow on my wife's Speedplay cleats.

I've settled on the waxed-based lubes simply because they are the least messy. Frequent application is far preferable to frequent cleaning. I'm reluctant to order consumables online and fly them halfway around the world. Rock 'N' Roll Gold or White Lightning are the most commonly available locally. I just use whatever is in stock.
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby silentC » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:15 am

Yes this is largely why I use Squirt, it's what the LBS carries. A 500ml bottle will last me more than a year.
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby human909 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:18 am

Defy The Odds wrote:Prolonged exposure to water can and WILL cause rust to your bike unless you clean it, dry and lube it. And I am talking prolonged here, such as those mentioned above.

Not in my experience with a good quality bicycle. Shall I try a few more decades to see if you are correct?

Defy The Odds wrote:It is up to you how you maintain your bike, it's your bike after all, but flaming someone for their cleaning regimen is really unnecessary.

Anyhow can we please stay on topic and revert back go the lubes you use, and why?

Which I tried to do. But you seem to be choosing ignoring any feedback that doesn't align with your current regime.

I would discourage using degreaser ANYWHERE where it can get into your bearings. Sure bearings are sealed. They are normally sealed with a greased labyrinth seal. This will work wonders at preventing water ingress. It will fail badly when exposed to degreaser.

I use motor oil which I apply to my chain as necessary wiping off excess. I have marine grease which I rarely use unless I'm performing maintenance on items that need grease which is quite rare.

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silentC
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby silentC » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:24 am

human909 wrote:Shall I try a few more decades to see if you are correct?

Methuselah lived to be 969. :)
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CycloTron
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby CycloTron » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:26 am

Hi, I also use Squirt now, having come from using Teflon based lubes like Finish line etc.

I really like it from personal experience but I certainly find it works much better on trails and gravel than on the road, in terms of keeping things clean. If you have a look around their website, there is an information sheet where they say that if used on the road, the lube seems to attract fine black particles (apparently tyre rubber) and goes a bit black. I was initially skeptical about this but can now confirm that this is indeed the case. On the road bike, although performance is fine, the chain does tend to go black and when wiped, a greasy black residue comes off. On the hardtail however, I have not found a better lube, just keeps everything clean and smooth.

They recommend completely degreasing a chain before applying the Squirt for the first time. What I did with a new chain was soak the chain in degreaser in a plastic container then agitate (i.e. shake :)), thoroughly rinse and dry with hair dryer, then soak the chain overnight in Squirt in another plastic container. Wipe off in the morning and leave on bike for at least a hour before riding. Has been humming along since.

One last thing to note is that I haven't had much luck getting much more than 150km out of one application, so for those longer day rides, a little top-up when stopped for lunch might be required.

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RonK
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby RonK » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:49 am

CycloTron wrote:If you have a look around their website, there is an information sheet where they say that if used on the road, the lube seems to attract fine black particles (apparently tyre rubber) and goes a bit black. I was initially skeptical about this but can now confirm that this is indeed the case.

Yes, that is a fact - it's carbon black, described as a "reinforcing agent" used in tyres. It's not unusual to see a covering of it on the shoulder of busy highways and freeways. And if you ride along them, you could end up covered in what is commonly called road grime.

Whilst carbon black may discolour a chain lube, I don't see how it is particularly detrimental.

Here's what Dr Karl says about it. Rubber Tyre Dust
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Patt0
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby Patt0 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:52 am

I spend 15minutes every second day cleaning my bike. I sacrifice my lunch time to do it. The only time water touches it is when it rains. Here she is in her cleaning station. Yes that is a scrubber in the background. I look after the environment as well.

https://imgur.com/gallery/p3cKJ
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RonK
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby RonK » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:16 pm

Defy The Odds wrote:Also, I think my original post got lost in the mix. This was about lubes, and not my cleaning regimen. I do appreciate the feedback from those regarding the lubes they have using and why though

:?: Err, I believe it was youself who actually changed the topic to your cleaning regimen, you described it in detail, you posted photos, you asked, quote: "what is the correct procedure for this and can you recommend me a good degreaser and cleaning method?".
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Defy The Odds
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby Defy The Odds » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:28 pm

RonK wrote:
Defy The Odds wrote:Also, I think my original post got lost in the mix. This was about lubes, and not my cleaning regimen. I do appreciate the feedback from those regarding the lubes they have using and why though

:?: Err, I believe it was youself who actually changed the topic to your cleaning regimen, you described it in detail, you posted photos, you asked, quote: "what is the correct procedure for this and can you recommend me a good degreaser and cleaning method?".


*nod in your general direction* :roll:

tez001
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby tez001 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:41 pm

Rock n Roll gold is quick and easy which is why I used it.
Between cleans, just use a rag to wipe the chain down after a ride and it will stay clean longer.

For me, I reapply every month / 1000kms or so

paule11
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Re: Another Lube Thread

Postby paule11 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:51 pm

As above do the same

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