CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

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Derny Driver
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Derny Driver » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:33 pm

human909 wrote:
They have less than a single tube. Yet will last for dozens of tubes. It sounds like you are trying hard to convince yourself.

If you want to patch tubes, go ahead. Just dont tell me you are saving the planet by doing it. Unless of course the tube-patching person doesn't use plastic bags, electricity, or buy a shitload of stuff from retail stores. Hopefully the bike with the patchy tubes in the tyres is a recycled clunker and not something which was manufactured in a big factory in Asia where you cant see your hand in front of your face for smog.
I also hope the tube-patching planet savers inflate their tubes by hand rather than use CO2 cartridges :wink:

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MichaelB
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby MichaelB » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:02 am

Widget wrote: ...
MichaelB wrote:I use cheap !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! patches and cheap crappy glue and CO2.

Never had a problem. Good preparation though.


Which patches and glue do you use ?


Mix of patches & glue off fleabay or the no-name gear in some shops.

I like the tip of storing in fridge once opened, as I've had some glue dry out on me

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find_bruce
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby find_bruce » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:35 am

I have always been a tube patcher. Like others though I am finding that they are no longer sticking well.

I do find the combination of CO2 & patches a bit odd as they seem to be pulling in opposite directions, both in terms of time & environmentally friendly.

Two real changes for me though - marathon plus tyres on the commuter mean I can't remember the last time I had a flat. Sure they are slow & overweight, but so am I.

I have recently tried tubeless on my roadie & seems to be working OK so far. One thing I have read about the tubeless goo is that CO2 makes it go off & I wonder if the same chemical reaction is working on the patches.

uart
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby uart » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:56 pm

MichaelB wrote:I like the tip of storing in fridge once opened, as I've had some glue dry out on me


The thing is though, it doesn't dry out until it's open. So if I keep my opened tube of glue in the fridge then that means I need to carry another unopened one on the bike. Then very first time I have to use it I now have two opened tubes to go off.

The main thing that causes the glue to go off is exposure to air. Sure temperature accelerates it like most chemical reactions, but the key is to get all of the excess air out of the tube (of glue) before resealing.

To be honest though, I find the best thing to do with freshly opened glue is to try to use it all. Like if you have a few unrepaired tubes laying around then when you get homes grab them and patch them while you're at it. Use it all up.

If I can't use the whole tube of glue then I will carry it for a while on my bike. But after about six months it's usually starting to go a bit gluggy so best to discard it and pop a new unopened one in the kit.

ironhanglider
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby ironhanglider » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:08 pm

uart wrote:
MichaelB wrote:I like the tip of storing in fridge once opened, as I've had some glue dry out on me


The thing is though, it doesn't dry out until it's open. So if I keep my opened tube of glue in the fridge then that means I need to carry another unopened one on the bike. Then very first time I have to use it I now have two opened tubes to go off.

The main thing that causes the glue to go off is exposure to air. Sure temperature accelerates it like most chemical reactions, but the key is to get all of the excess air out of the tube (of glue) before resealing.

To be honest though, I find the best thing to do with freshly opened glue is to try to use it all. Like if you have a few unrepaired tubes laying around then when you get homes grab them and patch them while you're at it. Use it all up.

If I can't use the whole tube of glue then I will carry it for a while on my bike. But after about six months it's usually starting to go a bit gluggy so best to discard it and pop a new unopened one in the kit.


Carry tubes, not glue. Do your patching at home.

Cheers,

Cameron
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LG
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby LG » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:10 pm

Similar here, long time patcher and also noticed failure rate has increased over the last few years. We are currently on a long bike tour and packed 2 spare tubes and a patch kit for 2 bikes (4 tyres). For bike touring a reliable patching kit is important. There's an exception to every rule.
LG = Low Gear

uart
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby uart » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:46 pm

ironhanglider wrote:Carry tubes, not glue. Do your patching at home.


Hi Cameron. I always carry at least one tube, but the idea of carrying a patch kit is for the rare instance when you get more than one puncture. :)

Patt0
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Patt0 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:34 am

I have had three puncture in one commute. I carried three spares for a long time. Now back to two due to the following.

Last wet spell, august or September,I got six punctures on one $2.60 tyre 6 months later, tube still good till I got a pinch flat. Replaced at that time. All patches were glued myself using $1.72 patch kit from Alixpress.

If it ain't broke....
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RobertL
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby RobertL » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:25 pm

uart wrote: To be honest though, I find the best thing to do with freshly opened glue is to try to use it all.


Not bike-related, but I love the fact that you can buy Supa Glue in a pack of 5 single-use mini tubes now. Open one, use it, throw it away. Perfect.
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human909
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby human909 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:22 am

Derny Driver wrote:If you want to patch tubes, go ahead. Just dont tell me you are saving the planet by doing it.

Why not? By being less wasteful is that not marginally better? (I won't ever claim to be personally 'saving the planet', but I do live a minimalist lifestyle.)

You seem to be awfully touchy on this. Patching tubes is less wasteful. If you are happy choosing not to then sure do so. But no need to try to disparage others.

Oh. And I've never used CO2 canisters in my life...

uart
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby uart » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:06 pm

human909 wrote:Why not? By being less wasteful is that not marginally better? (I won't ever claim to be personally 'saving the planet', but I do live a minimalist lifestyle.)

Yes marginally better for sure, but almost certainly swamped out by many other lifestyle factors, and possibly negated by as little as one or two trips in the car. That's why I prefer to base my reasoning mostly on cost and reliability.

If my patches are reliable enough so that the next "incident" is significantly more likely to be another unrelated puncture rather than a patch failure, then I'd call that a success and say keep on patching. The problem arises when the next failure is more likely to be a patch giving out than an unrelated puncture, and then it becomes a real reliability issue. Sadly I think that is what a lot of people are seeing these days.

The type of tubes I've had patching reliability issues with lately are high pressure narrow (18-25c) ones. I think it's a combination of the higher pressured but also the tighter radius that the patches have to curve around. Surprisingly I've also found lower reliability on patches that face inwards compared with patches that face outward and fully contact the tyre. With bigger tubes for lower pressure wider tyres however, no real problems and plenty of successful long term patches.

I also like to have a few known good patched tubes around as spares. When you suddenly find yourself down to your last new tube with nothing to carry as a spare, they are certainly better than nothing. :) Rather than immediately re-use a patched tube, I find the best thing to do is to mount it on a spare wheel and just leave it fully inflated for a week or two. If it's still good then it's a spare, otherwise it's a dud.

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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Patt0 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:55 pm

Must admit I have had two patch failures. Both were before I started to carry tubes and were patched on the side of the road in less than optimal conditions.
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human909
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby human909 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:10 am

uart wrote:
human909 wrote:Why not? By being less wasteful is that not marginally better? (I won't ever claim to be personally 'saving the planet', but I do live a minimalist lifestyle.)

Yes marginally better for sure, but almost certainly swamped out by many other lifestyle factors, and possibly negated by as little as one or two trips in the car. That's why I prefer to base my reasoning mostly on cost and reliability.


I agree with everything you are saying here. Reliability is absolutely an issue. There is not much more "frustrating" than fixing a flat and then finding it deflated shortly after.

I've certainly chopped tubes after such experiences. I've also had other tubes that have had 3 patches on them because they've lasted for years. I normally don't throw out punctured tubes, I repair them for the next time. Though if I don't trust their reliability then they get binned.

In general I don't carry spare tubes. IMO it isn't worth it for the 3 or 4 flats I get a year. Of course things are different if I'm riding in remote locations.

uart
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby uart » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:11 pm

human909 wrote:In general I don't carry spare tubes. IMO it isn't worth it for the 3 or 4 flats I get a year. Of course things are different if I'm riding in remote locations.

Nah, a spare tube is the very first thing I pack in my bike kit. Even if you carry a somewhat lighter weight tube than you normally run, it will still get you home.

Patching tubes by the roadside really isn't much fun (think possible rain and/or mosquitoes), and it's always going to happen at the most inconvenient time and place. I can usually slip in a new tube and be on my way in a few minutes. So much better to leave the patching to do at home. :)

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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby human909 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Yep I agree patching by the roadside is not fun at all, so I to do all my patching at home.
But I don't carry ANY puncture repair item most times.

A lock and lights are the only items I carry with any regularity. Both of those circumstantial of course. Likewise with tubes and a pump, etc... But those I very rarely carry except for remote rides.

And that is pretty normal for average urban cyclist. (As opposed to a cycling enthusiast.)

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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby uart » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:20 pm

human909 wrote:Yep I agree patching by the roadside is not fun at all, so I to do all my patching at home.
But I don't carry ANY puncture repair item most times. A lock and lights are the only items I carry with any regularity.


Ah I see. The old "mobile phone and call for a lift" trick? :D

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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby human909 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:51 am

uart wrote:Ah I see. The old "mobile phone and call for a lift" trick? :D
:mrgreen:
If it comes to that then maybe... But it has yet come to that. Normally it is just a trip to the nearest LBS. On my beater 26" wheel commuter I've even ridden home gently on a flat before...

The last two times:
-Happened on commute work. I walked the bike the rest of the way and took the wheel to a LBS during a lunch break. Bought tube and replaced myself.
-Happened on commute to work. Too far to walk so I locked up the bike and jumped on a tram. Picked up the bike in my car that evening.

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Ross
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Ross » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:45 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
human909 wrote:
They have less than a single tube. Yet will last for dozens of tubes. It sounds like you are trying hard to convince yourself.

If you want to patch tubes, go ahead. Just dont tell me you are saving the planet by doing it. Unless of course the tube-patching person doesn't use plastic bags, electricity, or buy a shitload of stuff from retail stores. Hopefully the bike with the patchy tubes in the tyres is a recycled clunker and not something which was manufactured in a big factory in Asia where you cant see your hand in front of your face for smog.
I also hope the tube-patching planet savers inflate their tubes by hand rather than use CO2 cartridges :wink:


I'm of the same view that patching tubes isn't worth the time or hassle or indeed the expense. The few tubes I have patched over time have mostly let me down (probably user error) so I don't bother anymore, just buy a 10 or 20 pack of new tubes online cheap and replace the punctured tube. Most of my riding friends must feel the same because I had a bag full of old punctured 700C road tubes that I tried to give away and couldn't find anyone interested. There was one guy interested but he only wanted the Michelin smooth stem ones, turned his nose up at the other threaded stem ones.

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Derny Driver
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Derny Driver » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:03 am

Ross wrote:... There was one guy interested but he only wanted the Michelin smooth stem ones, turned his nose up at the other threaded stem ones.

So it appears that there is snobbery amongst the tube patching brigade. I suspected as much !

Arbuckle23
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Arbuckle23 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:19 am

Derny Driver wrote:
Ross wrote:... There was one guy interested but he only wanted the Michelin smooth stem ones, turned his nose up at the other threaded stem ones.

So it appears that there is snobbery amongst the tube patching brigade. I suspected as much !


:lol:

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Tim
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Tim » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:45 am

Arbuckle23 wrote:
Derny Driver wrote:
Ross wrote:... There was one guy interested but he only wanted the Michelin smooth stem ones, turned his nose up at the other threaded stem ones.

So it appears that there is snobbery amongst the tube patching brigade. I suspected as much !


:lol:


Not me!
I'd patch a KMart tube if I knew the rotten patch would stick.

bgorton
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby bgorton » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:24 pm

I'm with the repair brigade, hate to throw away a tube, and when it is beyond repairing there are many uses for the rubber, ties in the garden, handy for the shed, great for tying things on the roof rack.

I bought dozens of patches years ago and buy contact cement for a couple of dollars from Bargain City or wherever. Careful preparation and rarely does a patch fail.

Instant patches didn't work for me when I tried them.

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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby BJL » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:24 am

Derny Driver wrote:
Ross wrote:... There was one guy interested but he only wanted the Michelin smooth stem ones, turned his nose up at the other threaded stem ones.

So it appears that there is snobbery amongst the tube patching brigade. I suspected as much !


Why do people hate valve nuts anyway? They're useful in keeping the valve in place when pumping up tyres reducing the risk of damaging the tube, especially when the tube is at a very low pressure and you're using a mini pump without a hose. Okay, they rattle loose but that be solved by carrying them in a saddle bag or whatever, not that I bother. But each to their own.

Widget
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Widget » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:16 pm

So you guys are certainly right... Park Tools Pre=glued patches suck. Had a pack (new), went riding to today.. flat.. patched.. failed.. all failed.. all patches failed... :(.. stuck 30km from home.

Gonna get some of these.. though can't find them in smaller quantities..

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/100x-15mm-Bi ... SwA3dYPWIZ

Alternatively.. has anyone used an old tube, cut up into squares or circles and glued down with that vulcanizing/rubber cement glue ?

kenwstr
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby kenwstr » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:53 pm

I came in late on this thread and only read the 1st few posts. Anyway, I note that the adhesive used on self glue-less patches I have used tends to allow the tube to expand as it inflates yet the patch does not expand. In other words, the adhesive yields to shear forces. This may well be a function of heat in summer as it doesn't always produce the same result. When the tube is deflated and contracts, the patch may buckle delaminate and then leak on re-inflation. Some patches adhere well though.

For small thorn punctures, I used to use Seamgrip to seal the hole, work it into the hole and a little on the tube as well (no patch). This worked very well for many years however the Seamgrip no longer bonds with the Butyl these days. So I agree, there seems to have been a change in the tube compound.

I get a lot of thorn punctures and don't like using slime as it can clog valves and pumps. Also, the slime only works for 1 season so when it does fail, you have a very messy tube to deal with if you don't like leaving roadside litter.

Normal patches are made primarily for car tubes and are so thick and large they leave less than 50% of a road tube to accommodate all the expansion required on re-inflation. This seems an excessive stress on the tube to me. So I decide to try some things to see what is the minimal patch required for thorn punctures. I am punching disc patches out of disposable latex gloves. These discs are a little smaller than the deflated width of the tube so can go on flat. They are super thin and do not interfere with the tubes natural stretch. However, you have to get them on perfect 1st go as the glue will make them curl up. A somewhat thicker patch would probably be easier to handle but the thin latex appears to be up to the job as none have failed in over a year.

Just some thoughts.

Ken

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