CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Widget
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CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Widget » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:04 am

Hi guys,

Long story short, I went for a ride and got a flat. Unfortunately I didn't have my pump or presta > schrader adapter, so had to use CO2 for the 1st time.
The spare tube I used, had recently been patched using one of those 'Park Tools self adhesive' patches (the clear kind). Patch was fine, I tested it by pumping the tube up afterwards and it held, no problem.

After replacing the tube, I used my CO2 (wow, the frost build up, quite interesting :p), packed up, then proceeded to ride home... 25m down the road, psshhhhh... flat. I removed the tube and noticed the patch went funny..

Image

Replaced it with the 2nd tube (also patched with same patch), inflated with CO2, and rode home ok. (next morning wheel flat.. have yet to inspect tube)

So.. I was contemplating getting some patches.. probably the glue on type.. but was wondering what you guys use for both,

a) the patch

b) the glue

I was looking at these as they seem to be only 15mm.. so not too big, unlike those rectangle ones which are rather large.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/100x-15mm-Bi ... SwA3dYPWIZ


Thoughts ?

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Tim
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Tim » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:32 am

I have a suspicion that the rubber in tubes is being siliconised.
Patches just don't seem to hold these days.
No matter how carefully and properly I prepare a punctured tube the patches fail. They usually hold for a brief amount of time, 5 minutes, overnight, or a couple of days.
Glued or glueless, they nearly all fail.
I tried a Lezyne kit, patch and glue, thinking good quality might work but no luck.
I know how to repair a tube, been doing it since I was a kid, something has changed,

RobertL
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby RobertL » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:14 am

Tim wrote:I have a suspicion that the rubber in tubes is being siliconised.
Patches just don't seem to hold these days.
No matter how carefully and properly I prepare a punctured tube the patches fail. They usually hold for a brief amount of time, 5 minutes, overnight, or a couple of days.
Glued or glueless, they nearly all fail.
I tried a Lezyne kit, patch and glue, thinking good quality might work but no luck.
I know how to repair a tube, been doing it since I was a kid, something has changed,


Hear, Hear!
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Derny Driver
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:27 am

There's no such thing as a safe patch.
The solution to the problem is pretty easy.
#spendsthousandsonabikebutwontpayfivebucksforatube

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RonK
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby RonK » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:31 am

Tim wrote:IGlued or glueless, they nearly all fail.
I tried a Lezyne kit, patch and glue, thinking good quality might work but no luck.

I have used the Lezyne glueless patches quite successfully. They work really well - I've even used them on tour to patch an air mattress.

Not so the ParkTools glueless patches, which failed repeatedly.

But how old were the patches? The Park Tools patches which failed had been in my toolkit for quite some time.

I now make sure to replace the patches in my toolbag each year.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

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Tim
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Tim » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:56 am

I tried the Park Tools glueless patches which were a miserable failure. They were probably a year or two old.
Haven't tried Lezyne glueless, only their conventional patch and glue kit.
I still think the rubber in some tubes has changed.

Derny Driver wrote:There's no such thing as a safe patch.
The solution to the problem is pretty easy.
#spendsthousandsonabikebutwontpayfivebucksforatube


Yeah I know, but I've patched dozens, if not hundreds of tubes in the past with a (near) zero failure rate.
I just don't agree with this throwaway, disposable culture we live in. A tube isn't much but I'd sooner repair anything than throw it.

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MichaelB
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby MichaelB » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:15 pm

I use cheap !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! patches and cheap crappy glue and CO2.

Never had a problem. Good preparation though.

Meh

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Thoglette
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Thoglette » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:29 pm

You've answered all your own questions: get proper, glue on patches. And buy decent tubes (e.g. made in .eu Michelin or Conti) rather than $2.50 ebay crap.

Or do a Derny and throw'm after one use.

#myTyresAreWorthMoreThanMyBike.
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madmacca
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby madmacca » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:34 pm

RonK wrote:
Tim wrote:IGlued or glueless, they nearly all fail.
I tried a Lezyne kit, patch and glue, thinking good quality might work but no luck.

I have used the Lezyne glueless patches quite successfully. They work really well - I've even used them on tour to patch an air mattress.

Not so the ParkTools glueless patches, which failed repeatedly.

But how old were the patches? The Park Tools patches which failed had been in my toolkit for quite some time.

I now make sure to replace the patches in my toolbag each year.


Yeah, I've done thousands of km on a Lezyne patched tube. But good point on replacing patches that have been in the toolkit for a while.

BJL
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby BJL » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:50 pm

madmacca wrote:Yeah, I've done thousands of km on a Lezyne patched tube. But good point on replacing patches that have been in the toolkit for a while.


Do you think that's necessary for all patch kits or just the glueless ones? I always use the ones with glue and haven't had any issues over time (does the tube of glue in the kit go off?) but I do find that on the road bike, patches usually fail after a few months. I'm usually home by then :mrgreen:

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RonK
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby RonK » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:06 pm

BJL wrote:
madmacca wrote:Yeah, I've done thousands of km on a Lezyne patched tube. But good point on replacing patches that have been in the toolkit for a while.


Do you think that's necessary for all patch kits or just the glueless ones? I always use the ones with glue and haven't had any issues over time (does the tube of glue in the kit go off?) but I do find that on the road bike, patches usually fail after a few months. I'm usually home by then :mrgreen:

Once the tube of glue has been pierced it's likely to harden, so don't expect it to keep too long.

Otherwise I don't think the shelf life is limited.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

defy1
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby defy1 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:26 pm

MichaelB wrote:I use cheap !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! patches and cheap crappy glue and CO2.

Never had a problem. Good preparation though.

Meh


ye same, from ebay. never had a problem with CO2

eeksll
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby eeksll » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:56 pm

mates tube failed with lezyne patches 2 weeks ago on a ride. I put it down to hole was too big, it was a pinch flat.

does anyone else think the metal lezyne "rougher" sucks or is it just me? sandpaper seems to work better.

ironhanglider
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:14 pm

RonK wrote:
BJL wrote:
madmacca wrote:Yeah, I've done thousands of km on a Lezyne patched tube. But good point on replacing patches that have been in the toolkit for a while.


Do you think that's necessary for all patch kits or just the glueless ones? I always use the ones with glue and haven't had any issues over time (does the tube of glue in the kit go off?) but I do find that on the road bike, patches usually fail after a few months. I'm usually home by then :mrgreen:

Once the tube of glue has been pierced it's likely to harden, so don't expect it to keep too long.

Otherwise I don't think the shelf life is limited.


I keep my glue in the freezer of my garage fridge. It keeps for months.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Toyopet
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Toyopet » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:56 pm

RonK wrote:Once the tube of glue has been pierced it's likely to harden, so don't expect it to keep too long.

Otherwise I don't think the shelf life is limited.

After piercing my glue tubes, I wrap them in a few layers of gladwrap, clingwrap or similar.
They last for ages.

Widget
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Widget » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:12 am

Thanks guys :)

Not sure how long i've had the patch kit.. I guess it would be over a year now. The patches still look and feel to be in good condition though, and still quite sticky.. how can I tell if the patches have gone bad?

With just getting a new tube, I'm not one to chuck something that can be easily fixed, especially a puncture in a tube. If I can patch it, and it works.. then I can extend the life of said tube and save a couple of $.

MichaelB wrote:I use cheap !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! patches and cheap crappy glue and CO2.

Never had a problem. Good preparation though.


Which patches and glue do you use ?

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Derny Driver
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Derny Driver » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:53 am

Widget wrote:With just getting a new tube, I'm not one to chuck something that can be easily fixed, especially a puncture in a tube... ?

Im not one to get a front wheel flat at 80kph descending Macquarie Pass, get stranded in the dark at night on a country road, or lose a club championship when a patch lets me down ...all for the sake of $5 :wink:

eeksll
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby eeksll » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:56 am

I have a fair bit of success using an old latex tube to patch punctures (with the vulcanizing glue), more success than those really thick proper patches. Not perfect though, I had one tube which had the slow multi day leak, can't confirm it was from the patch, but seems most likely scenario. I have not tried using butyl tube as the patch.

Also I always use my patched tubes in the wheel, my spare tubes are always non patched "perfect" tubes. I just don't have a solid enough success rate to trust my patches.

ironhanglider wrote:I keep my glue in the freezer of my garage fridge. It keeps for months.


I do that too as I have a box with a bunch of other type of glue etc

Toyopet wrote:After piercing my glue tubes, I wrap them in a few layers of gladwrap, clingwrap or similar.
They last for ages.


However, I have also stored them like this for > 6 months and still worked fine.

eeksll
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby eeksll » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:58 am

Widget wrote:Not sure how long i've had the patch kit.. I guess it would be over a year now. The patches still look and feel to be in good condition though, and still quite sticky.. how can I tell if the patches have gone bad?


not sure you can unless its too far gone. Just replace, those lezyne patches are like $5 a kit.

uart
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby uart » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:02 pm

eeksll wrote:does anyone else think the metal lezyne "rougher" sucks or is it just me? sandpaper seems to work better.

Not sure about the Lezyne one in particular, but yeah I hate those metal roughers (and they seem to be much the same in whatever brand kit I buy).

The first thing I do when I buy a new puncture kit is to throw the metal rougher and replace it with a square of nice strong 80 grit garnet paper. :)

uart
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby uart » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:15 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
Widget wrote:With just getting a new tube, I'm not one to chuck something that can be easily fixed, especially a puncture in a tube... ?

Im not one to get a front wheel flat at 80kph descending Macquarie Pass, get stranded in the dark at night on a country road, or lose a club championship when a patch lets me down ...all for the sake of $5 :wink:


There's a lot of truth to this. With online prices for decent tubes often $5 or less (compared to $10 to $13 in shops), the economics of patching for long term use, rather than for just getting you home, is getting a bit tenuous. The glue and patches can cost two thirds the price of a new tube, and next time you need to use it the glue has hardened so you need to buy a new kit anyway.

Back in the day of old clunkers running bigger heavier tubes at 70 PSI max in 1-1/4" tyres, it was more doable. Patches these days on narrow tubes run at 110+ PSI just don't always go the distance. If a patch blows off and you have to redo it a couple of times, then besides the inconvenience, you've probably spent nearly as much as a new tube just in patches and glue.

avolve
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby avolve » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:02 pm

For some, it is not about the economic cost (to us — i.e. tubes being relative cheap), rather the environmental impact of throw and way and don't think about it...

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Derny Driver
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby Derny Driver » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:20 pm

Im saving the environment by not buying tubes of toxic glue. Those patch kits have got that much plastic and crap in them I hardly see the enviro advantage in it.

uart
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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby uart » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:03 pm

avolve wrote:For some, it is not about the economic cost (to us — i.e. tubes being relative cheap), rather the environmental impact of throw and way and don't think about it...

Really you're preaching to the converter here. I'll fix anything that is fixable to keep it going. One time I even turned the chainrings on my old beater around and installed then backwards to get some more wear out them when they started to slip! :shock: I'll bet you've never even heard of someone being such a tightwad, um I mean environmental warrior, as to do that. Well I've been there.

And I've been a mad patcher. I'm probably the quintessential mad patcher. I've put patches on top of patches when I've need to. 8) But my observations over the past few years is that patches on narrow high pressure tubes (18-23c in particular) just don't go the distance. It's a bike reliability issue more than an environmental one, and with the online prices of tubes these days I'm slowly coming around to Derny Driver's way of thinking.

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Re: CO2 safe tube patches, suggestions?

Postby human909 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:57 pm

Derny Driver wrote:Im saving the environment by not buying tubes of toxic glue. Those patch kits have got that much plastic and crap in them I hardly see the enviro advantage in it.


They have less than a single tube. Yet will last for dozens of tubes. It sounds like you are trying hard to convince yourself.

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