The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

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DaveQB
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The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby DaveQB » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:31 pm

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/05/ ... -tubeless/

Do people have thoughts on this article?

To give you a synopsis, this guy, who works for Compass tyres, is saying don't run road tubeless tyres at anything higher than 60 PSI as you run the risk of the tyre blowing off the rim.

A quote:
Finally, road bikes, with narrower tires, are going tubeless, too. But it hasn’t always been smooth sailing: There are more and more reports of tires blowing off the rims. What is going on? Why are tires with inner tubes safe at high pressures, but the same tires sometimes blow off the rim when mounted tubeless?



Another quote:
As flexible as inner tubes are, they get to a point where they don’t stretch any farther – pull on a tube, and you’ll notice this. That makes it very hard for the tire to blow off the rim.


I run latex tubes when I run tubes and they can stretch 7 times their size compared to 2-3 (?) times their size of butyl. So that means using latex tubes will see the tyre blow off the rim? I haven't experienced that in about 2 years of running latex.

Later in the comments, someone asked the question I was wanting to ask, did this tester use a tubeless compatible rim? He responded with:
I don’t know what rim the tester used, but it was probably whatever the test bike came with.


I then chimed in and asked again and he responded with:
Of course it was a tubeless-compatible rim. These testers are not hobbyists, they are testing bikes from the big manufacturers, set up by the makers themselves.


So a few people, including the author mentioned this test:
When mounting a tire tubeless, first inflate it 20% higher than the pressure you’ll be riding. Let it sit for a while to make sure it will not blow off your rim. Then decrease the pressure before you ride the bike. That way, you know that you aren’t at the upper pressure limit for that particular tire/rim combination.


Others were saying 50% higher pressure and leave over night. Does anyone here do such a test?

Thanks.
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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby RonK » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:05 pm

Jan Heine is the owner of Compass Tires and wants you to buy them. He is one of the greatest self-promoters in the industry and would not miss an opportunity to rubbish competitors products to promote his own.

There some of course (even here) who think the sun shines out of his fundament.
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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby Duck! » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:11 pm

I've not had any reports of any tubeless tyres blowing off. I suggest Mr Heine is talking through his hat on this one.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:59 am

Duck! wrote:I've not had any reports of any tubeless tyres blowing off. I suggest Mr Heine is talking through his hat on this one.


Didn't happen to me. Tend to agree with Duck.

They didn't work for me, as whilst it did seal punctures for the most part, some of the side-effects (boogers was the worst) didn't make up for the benefits.

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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby hamishm » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:50 pm

Duck! wrote:I've not had any reports of any tubeless tyres blowing off. I suggest Mr Heine is talking through his hat on this one.

PiratePete reported his Compass tyres blew off and destroyed the rims over here: viewtopic.php?p=1408800#p1404293

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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby RonK » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:39 pm

hamishm wrote:
Duck! wrote:I've not had any reports of any tubeless tyres blowing off. I suggest Mr Heine is talking through his hat on this one.

PiratePete reported his Compass tyres blew off and destroyed the rims over here: viewtopic.php?p=1408800#p1404293

Ooops - so it's Jan Heine's own brand Compass tires that blow off. How embarrasment. :roll:
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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby Thoglette » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:20 pm

To paraphase the kiddies: "This thread is, like, soooo last month"

Back to sleep.
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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby DaveQB » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:14 pm

Thanks guys. I am new to road tubeless (about 2 months) and so this article got my slightly concerned.

I've never heard of compass tyres until now.

Is there merit in the 120 or 150% inflation-leave-over-night test?
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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby DaveQB » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:16 pm

Thoglette wrote:To paraphase the kiddies: "This thread is, like, soooo last month"

Back to sleep.


I found that single post in that thread when searching before posting. But the thread stopped when this article was mentioned and so no discuss was had about this article.
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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby hamishm » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:17 pm

RonK wrote:Ooops - so it's Jan Heine's own brand Compass tires that blow off. How embarrasment. :roll:

Umm, that would be why Jan just wrote the article about pressure limits with tubeless tyres...

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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby DaveQB » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:23 pm

hamishm wrote:
RonK wrote:Ooops - so it's Jan Heine's own brand Compass tires that blow off. How embarrasment. :roll:

Umm, that would be why Jan just wrote the article about pressure limits with tubeless tyres...


From memory, in the article he is saying other companies are having tubeless tyres blowing off rims based on testers he is talking to. I think he was including Compass too. I need to re-read it; I read it a week or so ago, just hadn't got around to posting it until now.
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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby RonK » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:01 pm

hamishm wrote:
RonK wrote:Ooops - so it's Jan Heine's own brand Compass tires that blow off. How embarrasment. :roll:

Umm, that would be why Jan just wrote the article about pressure limits with tubeless tyres...

Ah - I knew I'd draw out the disciples to defend Saint Jan. :lol:

But it's quite obvious from the incident PP (whom I know to be reliable and meticulous) posted in the other thread which is the sloppy loose-fitting brand of tyres.

Sorry, but Heine is just trying to deflect criticism of his Compass brand tyres by saying "tubeless tyres are all like that and you need to do this test".
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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby Ross » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:15 pm

These tubeless wheels and tyres from Mavic sound much better/easier to to use than the Compass ones - https://cyclingtips.com/2017/06/mavic-r ... s-weights/

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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby hamishm » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:40 am

Ross wrote:These tubeless wheels and tyres from Mavic sound much better/easier to to use than the Compass ones - https://cyclingtips.com/2017/06/mavic-r ... s-weights/

Well, it says they will be a good tubeless system with rim and tyre having matched dimensions for a good fit. It doesn't say anything about whether they are good tyres or not.

But I would say it makes Jan's point - rim and tyre dimensions are all over the place and some of them are not a good match and risk blowing off the rim. Read the comments in the CT article, il_falcone's in particular.

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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby biker jk » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:56 am

Here's the GCN video on the new Mavic UST wheel systems.


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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby Thoglette » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:21 pm

That' soo this post. But why have one thread when you can have three?

I'll take my meds now, thankyou :-)
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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby Mububban » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:08 pm

I'm very closely looking at a 2018 TCR that comes stock with Gian't own brand 25mm tubeless tyres. So that'd be another new thing to learn about.

Coincidentally, this video came up in my Youtube recommendations - check out the frenzied stabbing attack at 4:20 :D


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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby Mububban » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:52 pm

Hmm, further reading on my lunch break....

In a fairly bold move for 2018 standards, Giant has decided to sell the 2018 Propel Disc models as tubeless. Instead of offering wheels with tape in case you want to change your setup, Giant is shipping these wheels fully tapped and with a bottle of sealant for the shop to fill before purchase.

Giant’s near future plans including shipping all bikes from commuters through to high performance road models as tubeless.

Giant believes that reliability and convenience is fully within a tubeless wheel sets capabilities. Giant has also committed to educating it’s consumers about the upkeep of a tubeless wheel set.
Once registered online, Giant will send you emails and push notifications to let you know when sealant should be topped up and replaced. They will also release of series of education videos.
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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby robbo mcs » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:04 pm

Mububban wrote:I'm very closely looking at a 2018 TCR that comes stock with Gian't own brand 25mm tubeless tyres. So that'd be another new thing to learn about.

Coincidentally, this video came up in my Youtube recommendations - check out the frenzied stabbing attack at 4:20 :D




My local shop is a giant dealer. They don't set up any of the the bikes they sell as tubeless, unless specifically asked to. They just put a tube in. The rims / tyres are tubeless and tube compatible. So you don't have to go to tubeless, if you don't want to.

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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby Duck! » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:26 pm

Pretty much all of Giant's "performance" and most higher-spec "recreational" bikes are coming set up from the factory tubeless, so it's actualy easier from a workshop perspective to just chuck in the sealant and they're done..
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby Mububban » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:55 pm

Duck! wrote:Pretty much all of Giant's "performance" and most higher-spec "recreational" bikes are coming set up from the factory tubeless, so it's actualy easier from a workshop perspective to just chuck in the sealant and they're done..


How do you rate the Giant tubeless so far Duck? As said, I'm likely going to buy a 2018 TCR Advanced Pro 1
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Re: The Trouble with “Road Tubeless”

Postby Duck! » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:23 pm

So far seem pretty decent. The only variable is the tyres, and everyone is going to have their own preference on that front; the actual setup is no different to any other tubeless.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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