[SOLVED] Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (...isn't)

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WileECoyote
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[SOLVED] Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (...isn't)

Postby WileECoyote » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:24 am

Hi All, this is long and detailed because I wanted to put my own thoughts in order as well as provide the kind of background and context which could help in identifying not only the problem itself but also something in my approach that may be contributing.

So it begins with my starting to have trouble shifting the rear mech on a well run-in and well maintained cassette and chain combo. Due to the routine I have and the age of the cassette and chain I began to suspect worn components.

I’m quite disciplined about changing my chains at 0.5% and have rarely had cause to measure a chain at the 0.75% point.

This Shimano chain was not unduly elongated.
(i.e. by more than about 1/16th over 12”: I use 1/8th indications on a steel inch rule over 12 links)

Consequently, I considered that perhaps the cassette was now worn (it had seen this and one prior chain - though I can't tell you how many Kms exactly) so before the event this weekend I purchased a new chain and cassette pair.

I had already replaced the gear cable, and the rear mech is quite new (having replaced it when the original one stripped a thread when cleaning the jockey wheels).

Here are the basic details:

The machine is a 2010 trek Madone 4.7 (Ultegra with Fulcrum Racing 5CX Wheels and Conti 4Ks) it has a relatively new Ultegra rear mech, new gear shifter cable, new Ultegra 11-28 10 speed cassette and Connex Wipperman 10 speed chain (a favourite from years commuting).

The problem is indexing and the symptoms are described in the process detailed below (see red text for quick reference).
Basically, when I gave up trying to dial it in and rode a century this weekend I found I had a lot of noisy gears, several hesitating and some that would skip a sprocket, leading me to be shifting up and down and cross chaining because the small front chainring was not playing nice across its ideal range. Actually I had more than half my gears quite functional, quiet and at all the necessary points across the range but it was frustrating and because I have always expected more of my work I was disappointed I couldn't work out what was going on.

The only component I’ve not been able to assess properly is the dropout hanger, although I have no reason to suspect it and it looks ok and seemed to be fine for the last few Services.

In troubleshooting the problem I have replaced everything mentioned above (except the dropout) and thoroughly cleaned and regressed the shifter. I can confirm the cable I installed is correctly seated up front and I stretched it during install.

The wheel is a fulcrum 5 with a 11speed freehub that I use the supplied spacer for 11 to 10 speed conversion. I have also attempted to solve the issues by setting up with and without the 0.8 shimano supplied shim.

My process is some variation of the following:

    1) detach or release cable tension and set H and L limits by hand;
    2) screw tension adjuster all the way in and then back out 1-1.5 turns;
    3) confirm the shifter is fully released to highest gear stop;
    4) leaving the chain on the big ring re-tension the cable so chain returns to highest gear when shifted down and then back up;
    5) fine tune tension so there is minimal slack and hesitation in the lever to downshift and chain is just backed off from contacting the next sprocket (not noisy);
    6) proceed to downshift and upshift progressively to get indexing all the up to the 28.
    7) Now many guides suggest adjusting the tension with turns of 1/4 or there abouts in each gear to fine tune the indexing but I find that doing this alters the tension at the H limit point so that the chain no longer drops into it. This leads me to wind the tension out (back) to the original position;
    8 ) having confirmed and adjusted the L stop and tension to cleanly climb into the 28, I find that when shifting down I can rarely get it to drop onto the next gear but it tends to drop and settle on the 3rd highest, though I can is the lever to position it on the 2nd where it should have gone (and a subsequent downshift works as expected usually
    9) the end result seems to be hesitation (shifting up) or double sprocket changing throughout the upper gears (shifting down) throughout the middle cluster.

    10) I began working on the problem using both front chain rings but this did not make any material differerence that I could discern;
    11) although I serviced the shifter and it feels positive and precise it could be that it is worn or malfunctioning I guess;
    12) I will order or make a hanger alignment tool this week as it is something worth having but as a result I can’t rule out the hanger either.
    13) since the problem is not improved with a new chain and cass (and cable) and the rear mech is fairly new too (about 1200km) I am at a loss as to what I’m doing wrong
    14) I have had my share of frustrating sessions indexing in the past while I learned the process has become one I tackle with confidence and patience which I enjoy until this current issue

What do you guys think? I'm keen to hear thoughts on how to narrow down the possibilities further than I have.
Last edited by WileECoyote on Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby RonK » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:45 am

You say you replaced the gear cable. Did you replace the cable housing as well? What model of cable was used for the replacement?
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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby WileECoyote » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:58 am

Cable was probably a generic shimano type from 99Bs and no I didn’t replace housing, didn’t know about that yet actually - thank you - I’m looking into that now!
Edit: Oh sorry you mean the outers, no didn’t change. Thought you might have been referring to something in the shifter itself. Will definitely do this. They are hardly new and probably need doing.
Edit2: when I replace cable I lightly grease with the green shimano stuff - just between finger and thumb and run up and down line - you can’t see any residue but it is just a light precautionary measure.
I can see there could be some friction inhibiting things in the outers. Good suggestion thank you!

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby Duck! » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:54 pm

Worn outers will seriously mess with the shifting - fairly high probability that's your problem. The good Shimano outers are factory-greased, so no additional lube is needed on the inners. Decent Teflon-coated inners will also help reduce friction around the rather convoluted route through the shifter & upper housing.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby WileECoyote » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:34 pm

Hi Duck, thanks for your input. It seems very likely now and rather obvious :oops:
I have purchased original shimano outer and also the bits I need to do a quick diy check of my dropout (per RJtBG) alignment.
I’ll do the outer for the rear mech tonight and re-setup and see how it performs on tomorrow’s commute.
Cheers!

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby WileECoyote » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:55 am

Ok, a little frustrated I must say, though more determined than ever to work this out! Partly because I’m already sick of driving to work :)

So I replaced the cable housing (did the right brake too while I have the bar tape off) and I could only get black outers so I got enough to do the rest once I get this job done...

I pulled down and cleaned all the hardware - plastic receivers with brass bushings fitted with black grommets etc., and made sure everything was seated properly.

I reset the limits first without the chain or cable connected then ended up resizing the chain (1 less link) and resetting the B screw to be absolutely sure that after setting H and L tension and position would have been considered.

In the end I left it on the stand to finish later, as although the shifting was crisper and more accurate it is still not yet right. It still hesitates more than I am used to accepting (has to have the lever pushed a bit beyond the ratchet point - more than that nudge or slight over-squeeze that becomes intuitive with any setup) to the point where it sometimes engages the next one but has only just properly climbed the target sprocket, leading to a release click that does nothing to be centred on the selected sprocket.

The problem gets worse as the selected gear gets lower and, even when assisted by changing to the small front ring from half way down to the lowest gear, it needs tension added to respond well, but then it doesn’t release properly into the highest gear. Argh, it was getting both frustrating and more and more intriguing!

Now I know it all works slightly differently when being ridden, but it’s never quite behaved this poorly on the stand. At any rate, I didn’t keep getting it down and test riding it but always make sure the wheel is seated in the dropouts (with my weight leaning over the saddle) so it is square before putting it in the workstand.

I didn’t try it with only 1 shim/spacer because of time and the fact that there was some slight play when I used only the thicker spacer that the freehub comes with for 10 speed cassettes. For my previous cass (105 grade) it would be free of play with or without the extra shimano provided shim - and this only made a small difference in the limit settings and indexing - but not problematic like this.

The bike is second hand and I’ve put approx 2,000 very happy Ks on it, maintaining it much as I always have - though this is Ultegra and I’ve always owned 105.

Being 7 years old and much of that as a trainer it has got its share of sweat and neglect but it didn’t need anything done to be working just fine when I started weekend and commuting on it.

It gets about 200 a week, all weather but in the time I’ve had it it’s not been doing hard duty in rain or on poor roads etc.

I’m pretty fastidious (I clean and tinker as an enthusiast) and believe that like all machines it needs a certain amount of maintenance to avoid unnecessary wear and tear and improve longevity; but that said I readily admit that any additional effort I make is entirely for my own satisfaction and curiosity.

Hence I may have inadvertently stuffed something up or not realised it (like the housing). Having replaced cassettes and chains before I’ve had to index on this bike and my other one which has 105 running gear.

One thing to mention in case some of the history doesn’t seem to add up is that, because the bike was on a kicker I had already acquired the fulcrum 5s from the PO so the wheels were the original from the bike but also the ones I have been running for a long time on my previous bike. Further I have an old wheel I swap in on my turbo trainer so I was quite used to swapping theses things over and then needing the occasional index adjustment after cleaning or replacing a cable etc.

Anyway... that’s all the detail I think I can provide, what do you wrenching gurus think?

Cheers,
Will

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby tez001 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:02 am

In the previous 2000kms, did it ever have this issue? What series Ultegra and 105 have you run?

- Seems like you have nearly replaced the lot. Short of changing the shifter - or cleaning it out with a good dose of WD40.
- Failing that, perhaps try running a full length cable and outr from the shifter to the rear derailleur to rule our routing issues.
- what speed hub are you using and what spacers are on the cassette.

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby Duck! » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:50 pm

Use both spacers; the only time the thin one is not used is when the cassette is fitted to a rare dedicated 10-sp. hub. On any other wheel, if the cassette is supplied with the spacer, use it.

As I suggested previously, you really need coated inner cables due to the inherent higher friction in hidden-cabled shifters. Uncoated cables will noticeably degrade the shifting performance.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby WileECoyote » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:54 pm

OK, cheers guys.

Yes, it is a 10 Speed and I found I needed both spacers with the Ultegra 11-28 cass but oddly not with the previous cass I had which I think was a 105 model. Anyway, no matter - it is as you say - using both the provided spacers/shims and the cass is free of play and properly tightened.

I honestly can't say what exact 105 and Ultegra I've been using - the 105 was with my Avanti (same year as the Trek - 2010) but of course had different cassettes and chains over time as well as cable refresh jobs done (I must have done 2 cable changes on my Avanti without noticing these kinds of complications with the indexing).

The Ultegra is 6700 (I think) from 2010 and yet the cassette and rear mech are new (same spec/generation though afaik) - 10 speed, 6700.

I have some other cable inners still sealed and I'm not sure if they are coated (doubt it) and I'll crack one of them tonight just to see what the difference is.

I don't have enough outer to do a single run at the moment but that is an excellent tip- thank you.

As for the shifter, I did what I have done before to service these. I've only done it once before on my 105 which had got very gummed up and nasty after years of not "going there". What I ended up doing was:
    1) pulling bartape and hoods off
    2) removing cables
    3) hitting the assembly from all angles with Heavy Duty Degreaser whilst articulating the mechanism variously
    4) allow to soak in degreaser for a few minutes, then hit from all angles with the air compressor to blow out residue and displaced crud
    5) repeat a couple of times
    6) press a good amount of the green shimano general purpose grease into the mechanism and articulate and blow into the mech with the compressor (far enough away to allow it to work in without being blown out)
    7) repeat till shifting mech feels clean and well lubricated.

I know that the new grease will not last as long as the factory heavy duty stuff but short of buying something else to pack it with my reasoning was that if I can get it into the levers and mechanism with the compressor and then periodically check it and service if needed it can't do any harm.

This is what I did the other night with the Ultegra shifter, and it seemed to feel just fine but maybe there is a problem in there.

I suppose I am also getting more picky with my own results so I may have just got myself in a state and just need to reset everything and dial it in then ride it for a while to see if it performs ok. They certainly can perform differently on the road than on the bench - which is always curious because as I understand it the derailleur mechanism itself shouldn't be under a materially different load when the bike is being ridden, the load being mainly on the axle/dropouts and top run of chain from the rear to the front engaged teeth. The rest of the chain is under the sprint tension of the chain-length and hanger spring right, as is the rear mech itself? As such the assembly back there is not really "load bearing" and should be able to be setup on the bench.

I'm going to keep hacking at this as I know it's not rocket science and I enjoy the challenge. Just frustrating when you start to run out of ideas and beer ;)

Thanks for the help guys.

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby kb » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:17 pm

I like to test the cable by pulling it by hand after wrapping the bars. Very easy to feel any friction. I didn’t read carefully enough through everything but have you checked the cable is clamped in the correct place on the derailleur?
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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby WileECoyote » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:58 pm

Hi kb, you know I'm almost certain the cable is correctly clamped.
I'll post some pics and will happily admit if I've goofed.
I must say it does look a little less than a straight line but there is a little arrow on the housing.

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:24 pm

Agree with what others have posted, and have little to add aside from the issue of inner vs housing. Have found that mix/match combos (brands) don't always work well. I once had a similar problem just running some Jagwire cable thru a Shimano housing, didn't shift so well and was doing exactly what you described on an 8sp cassette. Would go up to 28t easy enough but would then drop 2 and wouldn't get down to the bottom cog. Remove the cable and run the derailleur by hand, no problems. So threw the Jagwire cable out, and replaced with a Shimano, fixed.

Also;
Check bottom bracket cable guide for dirt/damage
Make sure the cable housing loop around the rear derailleur is a nice gentle radius, too sharp a bend can create friction.
Check rear derailleur hanger for alignment.
Check pulley wheels for slop or impaired movement.
Mmm, SunTour

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby WileECoyote » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:14 pm

So... I'm stoked to have found the issue.

In the end I had purchased some more outer so I could run a single line from the shifter to the mech with straight through end pieces. This was to eliminate the routing and other hardware etc as suggested.

I then spent an hour and a half redoing all my checks and resets and applying a significant amount of thought, youtube, google and beer.

Results were always the same. When looking at the action it just never seemed to line up, looked like the increments were either completely wrong or the alignment was whack.

Well of course I went back to first principles and pulled everything off, cable off, chain off, mech off the bike. Thought I'd compare the mech with the old one (which was only replaced due to a stripped thread on the inner hanger plate :grrr:) and I immediately thought - wow - the new one is much bulkier... And then lining up the hanger bolts - thinking I'll use the new hanger inner to make the old one workable and I'll start again... and Uh Ho, hello, different dimensions?? Seems weird but then again newest set Ultegra, new design maybe? Checked the exact part numbers 6700 (old) 6800 (new) which solved the problem instantly with one search - 6800 is now 11 speed. And I have to say right away - yes, I am obviously embarrased, but also I even checked with the LBS today when I went in and got more outer and chatted about the issues I was having (getting lots of suggestions) and they confirmed that the RD I ordered from them was 10 speed and correct as the replacement - for the old RD that I had taken in looking only for the hanger inner - which I was told was no longer available.

so Basically I trusted the pros - if I had shopped online I would have done exhaustive research before I purchased and probably got what I needed (either a part ie inner hanger plate or correct replacement for my existing mech!).

so, since the hanger plates dont align Im going to put my 105 back on and go to the shop tomorrow...

and so...

yes, feels great to have an answer, and have put in the effort to confirm so much of my existing knowledge and experience even though it was so sorely tested.

Just goes to show...

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby Tim » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:25 pm

Edit; you jumped in with the last post while I was tapping out a reply.
Glad to know you've solved the problem.
None-the-less all of the below still applies. I took so long typing it I'd rather not delete it.
Cheers :D


Ultegra 6700 gearing is very similar to my DA7900 setup. It is vital that the RD cable runs as smoothly as possible otherwise I suffer the same "overshifting" problems changing to lower gears and slow higher gear selection.
As Duck suggested use coated inner cables. Shimano Optislick seem to be the latest variant, I still have a supply of PTFE coated inners. Coated cables are (near) essential for this range of 10 speed systems.
Use new ferules and make sure the cable runs through the bottom bracket guide cleanly and smoothly. On my bike I replaced the guide due to the cable cutting a groove in the plastic causing added friction.
There is a replaceable white nylon cable guide at the shifter cable entry point that can wear. Check it. I bought a couple of cheap spares from SJS Cycles in the UK (online).
Shimano SP41 is the recommended cable outer. I bought a long continuous length years ago;
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-sp41-gear-cable-outer-10m-length/
After cutting the cable outer sections use an awl or similar pointed tool to round out the cut. The cable compresses even with proper cutters.
Check the Dealers Manual for the correct anchoring of the cable to the rear derailleur, this is essential;
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-GN0001-20-ENG.pdf
It's not a bad idea reading the entire Manual chapter on RD fitting and adjustment as well as the Shifter instructions;
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/si/SI-6SC0A-002-ENG.pdf
Finally, make sure the cable outer is cut to a sufficient length to allow for a nice wide arc/loop at the RD. Cut too short it will restrict the inner.
People complain about the quality of shifting on 10 speed 5700/6700/9700 systems but mine runs perfectly provided I change cables frequently (5000km intervals) and do the job properly.
Last edited by Tim on Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby WileECoyote » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:10 pm

Tim, thank you for this invaluable information.

I was taking precautions with the cutting and cleaning up of the ends - I use a steel blade and round file to ensure the ends are not squashed and clear of inner lining and the structural wire.

I have replaced the ferules and cleaned and lubricated the guide under the bottom bracket.

I have completely re-serviced the shifter today before finding the issue thinking that it might have been that the problem was there.

So all in all the action is now crisp and positive and there is no hesitation in changing nor skipping and ghost shifting etc.

At one point when I was watching the action without the chain on I distinctly remember thinking that it looked like it was moving in a finer degree of increments than I was used to seeing (I've never had an 11 speed) and thought it looked like it might be an 11 but because I didn't question the authority of the LBS I fell into the trap of questioning my own observations and experience - something I have learned from before and this time most certainly!

I will consume these links (if I have not read them already I will read them and if I have I will read them again :) )
Thanks for taking the time to post in detail tim.
Will

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:22 pm

Glad you sorted it. On the plus side now, having the correct RD in there after all of the stuff you've done will possibly the best shifting bike ever...
Mmm, SunTour

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby Tim » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:54 pm

Um, guilty of plagiarism.
When I read the whole thread I realize everything I mentioned had already been raised, especially by you 10speedsemiracer.
Sorry. :oops:

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby WileECoyote » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:03 pm

Not plagiarism if you didn't intend it - and thanks for a shout out to the others who contributed - all invaluable help - I really appreciate it.

Doing the rest of the cables now because it was half black half white...

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby Duck! » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:52 pm

WileECoyote wrote:And then lining up the hanger bolts (do you mean cage bolts?)- thinking I'll use the new hanger inner to make the old one workable and I'll start again... and Uh Ho, hello, different dimensions?? Seems weird but then again newest set Ultegra, new design maybe? Checked the exact part numbers 6700 (old) 6800 (new) which solved the problem instantly with one search - 6800 is now 11 speed. .

6800 was always 11-sp, and completely incompatible with 10-sp. shifters. What you would have encountered is pre- and post-update 6700. When launched in 2009 for 2010 model year, 6700's geometry limited it to a 28T large sprocket. The same applies to 5700 105, launched the following year. In 2012 (for '13 model year), 5700 & 6700 got a late-model update which revised the derailleur geometry, altering the position of the top jockey wheel in order to allow greater sprocket clearance for up to a 32T, plus a slightly longer cage in order to carry a couple of extra links worth of chain. Thus the cages of original-spec 6700 and updated-spec 6700-A/6701 are incompatible.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby trailgumby » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:06 pm

I've been running 6700 10S for a good few years now and find it shifts perfectly. Occasionally I need to change the rear outer loop, especially after a few wet rides as it gets grit in it, but that is no different to any RD of this configuration - it used to be a common occurrence on the 3x9 MTB too until I went to Gore Ride-On sealed systems which are sadly no longer made. :cry:

The only other shifting unreliability issue occurs when the cable starts to fray at the shifter end, which seems to happen about every 5,000km in Sydney's hilly terrain.

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby Duck! » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:15 pm

WileECoyote wrote:I have some other cable inners still sealed and I'm not sure if they are coated (doubt it) and I'll crack one of them tonight just to see what the difference is.

Quick Shimano cable ID guide:
Standard uncoated cables will have a smooth cylindrical head, although may be stamped with a batch-marking letter. The cable itself is a bright silver colour.
PTFE-coated cables, which may be packaged as 7900 Dura-Ace (because they were launched with that series and were also standard-spec for 6700 Ultegra and 5700 105) have a shallow groove around the cable head (easiest identication clue), and the cable itself is a slightly darker grey. These are the best cables to use if you can still get hold of them.
9000 Dura-Ace/6800 Ultegra "polymer-coated" cables also have the groove around the head, but the cable itself is a distinct bronzey-brown colour. Avoid these; the coating shreds off and clogs the outers. They're great when fresh, but will degrade badly as the coating wears.
"Optislick" 5800-105-spec. Like the standard cables, smooth cable head, but a green tinge to the cable sets them apart. Second-best cables after PTFE-coated.


As for the shifter, I did what I have done before to service these. I've only done it once before on my 105 which had got very gummed up and nasty after years of not "going there". What I ended up doing was:
    1) pulling bartape and hoods off
    2) removing cables
    3) hitting the assembly from all angles with Heavy Duty Degreaser whilst articulating the mechanism variously
    4) allow to soak in degreaser for a few minutes, then hit from all angles with the air compressor to blow out residue and displaced crud
    5) repeat a couple of times
    6) press a good amount of the green shimano general purpose grease into the mechanism and articulate and blow into the mech with the compressor (far enough away to allow it to work in without being blown out)
    7) repeat till shifting mech feels clean and well lubricated.

I know that the new grease will not last as long as the factory heavy duty stuff but short of buying something else to pack it with my reasoning was that if I can get it into the levers and mechanism with the compressor and then periodically check it and service if needed it can't do any harm.


Don't stuff grease into the shifters!!!! The factory stuff is some fairly low-stick stuff that lasts about 15 years before it goes off. The green stuff - good though it is for wheel bearings, thread lubrication etc - is too sticky and will attract dust & crud, shortening shifter life and affecting the action of the small internal parts. If you have to relube the shifters, use a dry PTFE or silicon lube.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby WileECoyote » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:56 pm

Cheers all, fantastic wealth of info there.

So I removed all the grease from the shifters and used silicon.

I did mean "cage" rather than hanger and I can see that replacing the part I need may be difficult.

I run 11-28T so I've never encountered any of the issues related to the larger lowest sprockets - though I was aware that there would be complications.

is the new 6700 10s readily available and going to be compatible with my setup (if not the original cage geometry)- otherwise it looks like I'm stuck with my 105 for the moment...

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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby Duck! » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:57 pm

Yes, the updated 6701 is fully compatible, it just packs a bit more vertical clearance.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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WileECoyote
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Re: Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (isn't)

Postby WileECoyote » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:48 pm

Is it sold as a 6701 or is the 6700 I see around on the web (not sure if I can post a commercial link?)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/e ... -prod85967
Someone says here in the comments that they couldn't run the 30+T so I expect it might be either new-old stock of the original 6700 or the short-cage one of the new??
Something like a 6700 SS is what I want. They seem to be available online.

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Duck!
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Re: [SOLVED] Troubleshooting assistance please - indexing (...isn't)

Postby Duck! » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:07 pm

It should be labelled as 6701 or 6700-A; all 6700-series rear derailleurs made after mid-2012 will be this updated version, as the original short-body 6700 was phased out then, although stock would have remained in the wild for some time.

In both pre- and post-update versions, the upper body is shared with both cage lengths, which means a long-cage 6700 will still only handle a 28T sprocket, but will accommodate a triple-ring crank due to the extra chain length carried. On the flipside, it also means a short-cage post-update 6701 will fit a 32T, but when paired to a wider- range chainring pair (eg. a compact) stretches the chain length to its limit. Therefore the official limit for a newer shortie is 30T.
Last edited by Duck! on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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