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Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:13 am
by kenwstr
OK, so how do I replace temporary patch with a permanent patch?

I had have used temporary patches for some time and usually they are OK for a good while. However they eventually fail so it's either chuck the tube or try to repatch. In the latter case, the temporary patch adhesive needs to be removed but the usual solvents (essential oils) for removing this type of adhesive also degrade the the tube, causing cracks and a weakened section of tube. If I try to scrape, sand etc. the adhesive off, it just gets smeared around and not removed, despite spending much time and effort on this. Permanent patching over this sticky mess will not adhere properly and is very likely to leak. So , is there an effective way to clean this sticky goop off the tube?

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:33 pm
by Arbuckle23
Just buy new tubes, they are cheap enough.
I only patch if I have more than one puncture when out.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:24 pm
by OnTrackZeD
I carry a spare tube and only patch if I need a second tube, that way I can fix it properly at home if I want to.

Some heat may help in getting the glue off, caution needed.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:27 pm
by kenwstr
The issue isn't economic. I feel that it's more environmentally responsible to repair.

Ken

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:30 pm
by kenwstr
OnTrackZeD wrote:I carry a spare tube and only patch if I need a second tube, that way I can fix it properly at home if I want to.

Some heat may help in getting the glue off, caution needed.


I do the same but sometimes.....there are just too many thorns.
Haven't tried heat yet though, ta.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:31 pm
by Thoglette
kenwstr wrote: So , is there an effective way to clean this sticky goop off the tube?

I'm pretty sure plain ol' meths did the trick for me, post mechanical removal of the worst of it.

Regardless, you're going to sand off the top layer of tube so don't worry about "denaturing".

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:38 pm
by Bunged Knee
Try nail polish remover and if it do remove old patch, then dry it out and sandpaper the tube before apply the new patch.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:38 pm
by kenwstr
Ta, I managed to remove the glue and reapplied a permanent patch. While awaiting replies, I decided to try rubbing off the glue with kitchen paper as it balls up the glue preventing smearing. Got some black marks on the kitchen bench which came off easily with simple green. So used that on the tube as well to remove remaining residue, rinsed and dried. Will give the patch some time to harden up before testing for leaks or adverse reaction with the butyl. I have found some other references to using alcohol as well now, maybe next time.

Ken

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:25 pm
by uad782
Pardon my ignorance but what is a temporary Patch?

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:44 pm
by Tim
^^^
Self adhesive patches I think.
Although, in recent years almost every patch I've used has only been a temporary fix. They were once permanent.
I suspect the rubber is siliconised and nothing sticks properly any more. At least with certain tube brands.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:33 pm
by Mulger bill
Tim wrote:^^^
Self adhesive patches I think.
Although, in recent years almost every patch I've used has only been a temporary fix. They were once permanent.
I suspect the rubber is siliconised and nothing sticks properly any more. At least with certain tube brands.

That'd be it. I've got a few very old ones in my commuters pack that I've been fortunate to never need, always carry a spare tube or two as first roadside repair option

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:44 am
by uad782
Thanks. Yes most patches are pretty useless these days. There are some Japanese ones I get that work really well.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:20 am
by OnTrackZeD
Tim wrote:I suspect the rubber is siliconised and nothing sticks properly any more. At least with certain tube brands.


The siliconised tubes are slippery when you press your finger and drag it over the tube. The old/original type drag and grip on the rubber.

You're right siliconised tubes are just about impossible to repair but I have come up with a technique that seems to work.

Sand and clean around the area that needs to be patched.
Apply rubber cement onto the tube and onto the path itself evenly.
Allow to dry completely 5 to 10 minutes.
Reapply glue to both tube and patch evenly.
When tacky apply the patch to the tube and apply pressure for 2 to 4 minutes.

I've had a patched tube in my rear wheel for 1500km with two repairs and to my surprise its holding up. Time to stop carrying the second tube that I added because of the repaired tube I installed.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:58 pm
by Thoglette
OnTrackZeD wrote:You're right siliconised tubes are just about impossible to repair but I have come up with a technique that seems to work.

Sand and clean around the area that needs to be patched.

This is the critical bit for me.

uad782 wrote:Thanks. Yes most patches are pretty useless these days. There are some Japanese ones I get that work really well.

Tease. Which Japanese ones? What's the difference?

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:35 pm
by uad782
Maruni patches. They are only small but seem to work really well.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:43 pm
by kenwstr
Yes, by temporary patch I did indeed mean a self adhesive patch. These are temporary because if you ever deflate again (to fix another flat), the patch often de-laminates exposing the leak again. (not so much a problem if the tyre is the minimum size for the tube)

OK, so what I found is that rubbing with simple green and kitchen paper tends to remove the old adhesive better than metho (mostly methanol). Neither of these appear to have a significant adverse reaction with butyl (unlike essential oils like eucalyptus).

I agree sanding the tube over the whole area to be patched is essential.

Ken

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:46 pm
by Thoglette
uad782 wrote:Maruni patches. They are only small but seem to work really well.

Thanks!

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:00 pm
by uart
kenwstr wrote:The issue isn't economic. I feel that it's more environmentally responsible to repair.


In that case Ken then I'd recommend carrying a spare tube (or two) to use for the roadside repair, and then properly patching your tubes when you get home. I sometimes keep my old tubes if they only have a small hole, and then when I've got two or three to do I'll get out the patches and the glue. Removing old patches to repatch is too much fiddling around in my opinion.

I have to admit that I don't like using patched tubes too much on high pressure (narrow) tyres. Too unreliable. One wider tubes at lower pressure the reliability is a lot better though.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:18 pm
by Thoglette
uart wrote:In that case Ken then I'd recommend carrying a spare tube (or two) to use for the roadside repair, and then properly patching your tubes when you get home. I sometimes keep my old tubes if they only have a small hole, and then when I've got two or three to do I'll get out the patches and the glue. Removing old patches to repatch is too much fiddling around in my opinion.

Sound advice.

uart wrote:I have to admit that I don't like using patched tubes too much on high pressure (narrow) tyres. Too unreliable. One wider tubes at lower pressure the reliability is a lot better though.

I'm old enough to have used patched tubes almost as long as we've had HP tyres, well 700C perhaps :D. Never had a problem with patches.

At least not until these "siliconised" tubes arrived, and I think that a decent bit of sanding seems to have fixed that. Never less, I'm going to be looking for made in .de tubes from Conti and Schwalbe next time I go shopping.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:00 pm
by uart
Thoglette wrote:I'm old enough to have used patched tubes almost as long as we've had HP tyres, well 700C perhaps :D. Never had a problem with patches.

I'm always a bit uneasy the first ride on a patched tube. These days I've taken to mounting them on one of my spare wheels and just leaving them inflated for some time to "prove". If they survive a good while like that then eventually I'll use them, but unless I'm short of new tubes at the time I usually prefer to just carry them as spares.

At least not until these "siliconised" tubes arrived, and I think that a decent bit of sanding seems to have fixed that. Never less, I'm going to be looking for made in .de tubes from Conti and Schwalbe next time I go shopping.

Yeah, the very first thing that I do when I get a puncture repair kit is to throw away that cheap little metal rasp and throw in a good sized strip of cloth backed garnet paper (about 80 grit is ideal). I can do a much better job of roughing them up like that.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:38 pm
by Kronos
If you get a flat its a good indicator that you should buy a new tube/tyre. A tube will cost you $10 from your local bike store, I buy my tyres for $50 since I have a mate that can get them for me (no me does not include you). But it will save you a lot of heart ache and lost sleep to do it properly the first time.

I had to replace a tyre and tube because I rode on it for one too many rides. That was $25 down at my local bike store for a new tube. You can't do much other than phone a friend in that instance. The moral of the story is do it once and do it right or spend your beer money for a week on something you didn't need to spend it on.

Re: Replace temporary patch with permanent patch?

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:12 pm
by Kronos
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