Freehub Failure

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ft_critical
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Freehub Failure

Postby ft_critical » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:37 pm

Bit dramatic but... three related wear questions:

1. Campagnolo pawl spring - seems rubbish, why is that? I have now had two wheels rebuilt multiple times for pawl spring failure. Essentially, freehub chatter goes and then you lose drive.
2. Does doing up the cassette lock ring too tight damage anything? LBS says no.
3. Does the freehub body wear? I noticed whilst cleaning my cassette 'on hub' that it moves, in particular the fixed 23-21-19. Noticeably moves; in a rotational sense. Could be related to the above where my lock ring is not tight enough? Is movement okay? Any other thoughts?

FH-RE114 is the weak link from point 1 above.
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RonK
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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby RonK » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:06 pm

Never had a pawl spring failure with my Campy freehubs over many thousands of kilometers. Nor is there any movement in the cassette. I suspect yours has the wrong spacers.
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ft_critical
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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby ft_critical » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:16 pm

RonK wrote:Nor is there any movement in the cassette. I suspect yours has the wrong spacers.


Not in that plane Ron, it is movement of the cassette on the freehub, rotating in the same direction as the wheel turns. It is the fixed part of my cassette, so no problem with spacers.

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darkhorse75
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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby darkhorse75 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:28 pm

ft_critical wrote:Bit dramatic but... three related wear questions:

1. Campagnolo pawl spring - seems rubbish, why is that? I have now had two wheels rebuilt multiple times for pawl spring failure. Essentially, freehub chatter goes and then you lose drive.

Why not just replace the pawl spring? Why is it necessary to rebuild the wheel?

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ft_critical
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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby ft_critical » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:41 pm

darkhorse75 wrote:Why not just replace the pawl spring? Why is it necessary to rebuild the wheel?


That is what I meant by rebuild - you have to partially disassemble it to replace the pawl spring, I get the LBS to do this. I could probably do it myself with a supply of pawl springs - but I want it to not happen at all. This is on a Zonda and a Neutron wheel. The Zonda spring was replaced by Campagnolo last time in Europe.

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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby Duck! » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:38 pm

If you're using the 29T sprocket a lot you could be stressing the pawls & spring; big sprockets put more torsional load on the hub drive than smaller ones.
Tightening the cassette has no effect at all on the health of the drive mechanism, as the compreesion load is entirely borne by the cassette.

Play in the freewheel body is likely to be due to worn outbearings in it. I have found the freewheel bearings considerably shorter-lived than the main axle bearings.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby biker jk » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:41 pm

You might find this useful:

Breakage frequency was never that high in proportion to the number made and the number of KM ridden, but the single spring mechanism does sacrifice a bit of durability for lightness and simplicity not only of assembly but also of maintenance.

We took over as main SC in 2008 and I just checked - we have done 12 of these under warranty in all that time (though I know some shops just used to do it as a goodwill thing, obviously).

The older version, used from 2000 until 2012 used a slightly lighter spring than the current and was designed so that the freewheel well could (and should) be relatively dry of grease and rotational pre-load on the mechanism would be less. Corrosion in these cases (bought about by oil / grease being washed out completely) was sometimes a cause of breakage as was defective assembly at the factory or slightly clumsy re-assembly after servicing - it was possible (and still is, although you have to try quite a lot harder) to kink the spring when setting or re-setting the pawls inside the drive ring. This could lead to breakage at that point.

In 2012 Campagnolo changed the weight of the spring as well as the material and spring rate to allow the freewheel mechanism to work with more grease, so circumventing the corrosion issues occasionally seen previously and also reducing noise (and to some extent wear and tear on the pawls & drive ring). It's very, very rare that we are asked to replace a spring under warranty now. We upgrade older hubs that come in for servicing as a matter of course.


http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=128503

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ft_critical
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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby ft_critical » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:33 pm

Thanks Duck, indeed could be the bearings. I run a 23 or 25 only.

John thanks. Neutron is a 2009, second spring fitted by Clarence St in 2016 and seems fine so far. The Zonda is a 2016, new spring in 2017, in at Clarence St at the moment. The Zonda has only done 1200 km which is so annoying. Sending it to Campagnolo took 4 months.

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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby MelodyWheels » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:25 am

Campagnolo/Fulcrum freehub bodies often blow bearings. Its hard to say if its a design issue or simply the that there are so many of their wheels out there... I see this issue all the time. They have single sided Nitrile rubber seals on the outside of each freehub body bearing... This is designed to reduce seal drag, however, any waster/contamination that gets in will quickly cause wear and rust on the bearings. The freehub bodies are often pumped full of white grease between around the spacer tube (between the two freehub body bearings)... this seems to do little to prevent wear and premature failure.

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ft_critical
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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby ft_critical » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:25 pm

MelodyWheels wrote:Campagnolo/Fulcrum freehub bodies often blow bearings. Its hard to say if its a design issue or simply the that there are so many of their wheels out there... I see this issue all the time. They have single sided Nitrile rubber seals on the outside of each freehub body bearing... This is designed to reduce seal drag, however, any waster/contamination that gets in will quickly cause wear and rust on the bearings. The freehub bodies are often pumped full of white grease between around the spacer tube (between the two freehub body bearings)... this seems to do little to prevent wear and premature failure.


Thanks for your reply, a topical one. LBS fixed the issue. There was a broken spring and a collapsed bearing on the Zonda. The grease was in bad condition which surprised them and me since it was 500km or so since being rebuilt by Campagnolo. LBS couldn't determine whether the spring or bearing/s broke first, or if one caused the other.

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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby Uncle Just » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:32 am

^ I've noticed this on a Record hub I built up into a wheel a couple of years ago. After about 1000-1500kms it was running rough and had play so I adjusted the play on the bike via the little locknut. When I next removed the wheel it was still rough so pulled it apart and the bearing deep inside the freehub was not running smooth. Prised off the seal cleaned it carefully with solvent and relubed but I was probably a tad late. Disappointing. Any recommendations for another hub that takes a Campag spline? Any views on White Industries hubs?

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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby jackthelad » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:34 am

Is there a compatable enduro bearing
they tend to be quite well sealed,
and i always clean my cassette off wheel
only when i change my chain
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MelodyWheels
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Re: Freehub Failure

Postby MelodyWheels » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:12 am

Uncle Just wrote:^ I've noticed this on a Record hub I built up into a wheel a couple of years ago. After about 1000-1500kms it was running rough and had play so I adjusted the play on the bike via the little locknut. When I next removed the wheel it was still rough so pulled it apart and the bearing deep inside the freehub was not running smooth. Prised off the seal cleaned it carefully with solvent and relubed but I was probably a tad late. Disappointing. Any recommendations for another hub that takes a Campag spline? Any views on White Industries hubs?


You can replace the bearings on the Campagnolo freehub bodies with a better sealed bearings. Most hubs have circlips with 'eyes' holding the internal freehub body bearing in place. Some older freehubs had a retainer ring which was a PITA to get out and not really worth the time and effort. These kind of jobs are not really DIY jobs. Campy hubs will only work with their freehub bodies (or Fulcrum), so you cant get a different brand freehub body.

Re: White Ind, yes. great hubs. Similar to Record in terms of hubshell strength and durability. They havent been without some premature bearing wear issues but these things can be fixed easily.

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