What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

uart
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What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby uart » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:17 pm

I'm just wondering what brands (and size) tubes that people here have had good reliability with in their 25c tyres, particularly in the more generously sized 25's like the conti gp400s (and others).

I've had absolutely rubbish luck with most brands of 18c to 25c tubes. It seems that they are just too small, and become weak and fail in my 25c tyres (even at moderate pressure like the 95 to 105 psi which is what I'm running). I've tried Continental and Michelin tubes (in 18-25c or 20-25c) and both have let me down badly. The last Michelin tube I put in this week made it a whole 2 km on smooth path before spontaneously failing. No penetration, not pinched, not incorrectly installed, velox rim tape in perfect condition with perfect coverage, tube just failed for no reason. Like the continental race28's before this, though at least they mostly lasted a few weeks to a few months before spontaneously failing without reason.

So just wondering what other people are using in this tyre size. So many brands don't do a specific 25 - 28c tube these days. Common sizes seem to be 18 to 25c (most of which don't really work reliably in a true 25c tyre) or the much bigger 28c to 35c range.

BTW. I have only had good success with one tube type in these tyres, and that is the "Vittoria Road inner tube" marked as 25 to 28c. These are only a little bigger and heavier than the 18-25c ones, but so far have held up really well. The only issue with these ones is that I can only get them with short (36mm) valves.

Looking online I've noticed that Schwalbe "SV15" tubes claim to cover the range 18c to 28c. That's a hell of a range, and if true maybe they might actually work reliably in 25c. Has anyone tried them?

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby mikgit » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:51 pm

I run Conti race 28 (apparent;y 20-622 or 20-622->25-630 or whatever) with conti gp4000sII 25'sand it's what I've run for years (bought a pile of them maybe 3/4 years ago). Get a flat every now and then, usually when I run over something I shouldn't have. Otherwise seem to work fine.
I also run Conti tubes on all my mtbs and the GF's road bike (same tubes and tyres).
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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby uart » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 pm

mikgit wrote:I run Conti race 28 (apparent;y 20-622 or 20-622->25-630 or whatever) with conti gp4000sII 25'sand it's what I've run for years (bought a pile of them maybe 3/4 years ago). Get a flat every now and then, usually when I run over something I shouldn't have. Otherwise seem to work fine.


Thanks mikgit. I wonder if the quality of those race28's has gone downhill or something? I purchased a bunch about 6 months ago and they were made in China. Some seemed to work ok, but eventually developed a small split or small hole at random points (though usually on the underside). Some took a few months to self destruct, others only weeks or even days. No penetrations or pinches or faults with the rim tape were ever found. In every case when I put these tubes in narrower tyres (23c or less) they worked as expected without failing.

Thought I try something different so last week I bought a bunch of Michelin Airstop A1's (18c - 25c) and these ones are made in Serbia (actually I was relieved to see anything other than made in China there after recent experiences). First one was fitted on Wednesday with a brand new "Continental Ultrasport II" tyre (700x25c). I was super careful in the fitment, no tyre levers used, everything fitted very smoothly and I'm 100% certain that there was nothing "trapped" or any type of fitment issue. The wheel had new velox cloth tape that was (and still is) in flawless condition. Pressure was right about 100 psi, and I rode it for 2 km on smooth pavement before the tyre went flat.

Pulled the tube and as expected (from recent experiences), no penetrations, no pinches not so much as even a nick in the new tyre, but the tube had just spontaneously developed a small hole on the underside. I thoroughly checked the rim tape adjacent to the hole for issues, but it was perfect. :x I'm so pissed with these tubes, I just can't be bother to even use the others after this. Punctures are a big enough pain in a backside at the best of times, but punctures for no good reason are the biggest PITA ever.

I've got some of those Vittoria's that I mention above on order that I'll have in about a week. In the mean time I'm running some no name brand (Indonesian) tube that's about 20 years old with 3 patches on it. Fortunately it is still holding up fine. I'm so pissed that a 20 year old "off brand" tube with 3 patches is more reliable than anything I can buy new from the big name brands. :?
Last edited by uart on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tim
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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby Tim » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:45 pm

I used to run race and ordinary Conti tubes till a run of duds turned me off them. 3 or 4 times I had splits, breaks at the valve base and punctures. Patches wouldn't stick either.
I pay a little extra for the appropriate sized Shwalbe tubes. The one tube fits 18 to 28mm tyres which suits me as I run 23, 25 and 28mm tyres on 4 different bikes.
Looking at the box they are 700C/28", SV15.
I bought 5 tubes about 18 months ago and still have 4 left in the goodies box (underneath my bed :D ).
I don't get many punctures where I live. I don't think I've punctured any of the Shwalbes and I like the look of the clear plastic valve caps. :D

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby uart » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:11 am

Tim wrote:I used to run race and ordinary Conti tubes till a run of duds turned me off them. 3 or 4 times I had splits, breaks at the valve base and punctures. Patches wouldn't stick either.

Ah that's interesting, the same experience as myself. BTW. So far the Michelin's have been even worse (though only a sample size of one).

I pay a little extra for the appropriate sized Shwalbe tubes.

But the ones I'm using 18/25c *should* also be appropriately sized for 25c tyres, yet they're not.

The one tube fits 18 to 28mm tyres which suits me as I run 23, 25 and 28mm tyres on 4 different bikes.
Looking at the box they are 700C/28", SV15.

Thanks Tim, that answers one of my specific questions about the Schwalbe's. It seem a bit of a stretch (literally) to cover all sizes 18 to 28, but if they work then excellent, I'll give them a go.

I bought 5 tubes about 18 months ago and still have 4 left in the goodies box (underneath my bed :D ). I don't get many punctures where I live

Nor do I Tim, almost all of my flats in the past two years have been straight out tube failure, not punctures. That's why this issue is so frustrating.

BTW. The "Vittoria Road tubes sized 25/28c have worked perfectly for me, but I can only find them in 36mm valve length. The handful of these that I've used have only ever gone flat for totally legit reasons (one glassed, one thorned, one pinched when I stupidly decided to go off road on my road bike, etc). For anyone not using deep rims these are totally ideal for the 25/28 tyres. About $5 each from Wiggel and made in Thailand from rubber that still takes patches properly. :)

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby P!N20 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:25 pm

Kenda 18-23's. I've used them in 23's, 25's and 28's without a problem.

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:59 pm

I'm going to chime in here as I also use the Schwalbe 18-28mm, same model # SV15 as someone who posted prior.

They're a bit dearer, but buy a few (via this supplier anyway) and the price becomes almost reasonable. I think they are $9 each, coming down to $8.49 for 2, then $7.99 etc etc.

Image

Have also had a prior poor experience with Conti tubes, specifically around the base of the valve stem. Had two fail, thought it was me. Tried two completely different tubes (ripped off at LBS, but that's a different thread) and installed in exactly the same manner, no issues.

Would be interested to hear your experience with the Vittoria tubes, as haven't used them but do like Vittoria tyres. I can't fit Schwalbe tyres to all of the bikes, and am currently running Vittoria Zaffiro 28mm on my training bike (for lack of a better term, can't really call what I do 'training').
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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby Tim » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:16 pm

I like the Shwalbe SV15's but I don't think I've tried patching one yet.
A gripe of mine has been an inability to successfully stick a patch to the newer batches of tubes lately.
10speedsemiracer have you had any luck patching the Shwalbes?

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:48 pm

Haven't needed to patch one yet, have only done maybe 300-350km on them inside 28mm Vittoria Zaffiro rubber.
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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby uart » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:16 am

10speedsemiracer wrote:I'm going to chime in here as I also use the Schwalbe 18-28mm, same model # SV15 as someone who posted prior.

They're a bit dearer, but buy a few (via this supplier anyway) and the price becomes almost reasonable. I think they are $9 each, coming down to $8.49 for 2, then $7.99 etc etc.

Merlin now has them for just $5.89 (40 mm valve), even in 1x quantity. https://www.merlincycles.com/schwalbe-s ... 44783.html
I nearly bought them instead of the Michelin's (definitely should have) but was unsure about the claimed 18-28c range which seemed a bit much.

Would be interested to hear your experience with the Vittoria tubes, as haven't used them but do like Vittoria tyres. I can't fit Schwalbe tyres to all of the bikes, and am currently running Vittoria Zaffiro 28mm on my training bike (for lack of a better term, can't really call what I do 'training').
I've only used the 25/28c ones mentioned above but they've been great. I'm also running them on my "beater" with 27x1 1/8" (same as 28c) Zaffis, and had zero problems. Same with their tyres, they've never let me down. I love conti tyres too, but they (and Michelin) are doing their brand name a real dis-service by putting their name to these rubbish tubes.

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby Mububban » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:34 pm

uart wrote:I'm just wondering what brands (and size) tubes that people here have had good reliability with in their 25c tyres, particularly in the more generously sized 25's like the conti gp400s (and others).


I just buy whatever basic $10 tube the LBS has behind the counter when I pop in. All my flats so far have been double Gs or bits of metal, I haven't had any pinch flats or general tube failures.
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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby uart » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:06 pm

Mububban wrote:
uart wrote:I'm just wondering what brands (and size) tubes that people here have had good reliability with in their 25c tyres, particularly in the more generously sized 25's like the conti gp400s (and others).


I just buy whatever basic $10 tube the LBS has behind the counter when I pop in. All my flats so far have been double Gs or bits of metal, I haven't had any pinch flats or general tube failures.

I've determined that the problem is not so much the tubes as the sizing. Many brands are just making their 18c/25c or 20/25c tubes too small to expand to 25c without serious reliability issues. My gripe is that if it says ../25c on the box then it should work (reliably) in 25c. Many do not. The problems go away if I use them in 20c/23c tyres, but failures happen regularly if I stick them in 25c.

If the tubes you are buying are a larger size then my issue is not really relevant - whatever the brand.

BTW. Re the continental "race 28" in 20/25c. I've also got some wider ones here (Race 28 700c Wide) and they have been no problem (no failures). I thought they were a bit wide for 25c (I thought they were for 28c/32c), however I've just noticed they are actually marked 25c/32c. So at least conti do have a tube that will work in 25c, albeit a bit larger and heavier than necessary at twice the size and weight of the others. But at least they actually do work!

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:24 pm

I use conti race for 25-32mm tubes and had no issue what so ever.
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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:59 pm

Mububban wrote:
I just buy whatever basic $10 tube the LBS has behind the counter when I pop in. All my flats so far have been double Gs or bits of metal, I haven't had any pinch flats or general tube failures.


That's the bit that irritates me about LBS pricing. The exact same tube is $4.49 online (local stock) and surely they're making money on it at $4.49, so how much markup is the LBS making on a $9.99 tube ?

I know it's only $5 but it's Really Irritating.
This exact scenario played out at my LBS recently, I got stuck and needed a tube then and there. He grabs a crappy Tioga off the shelf and says "that'll be $9.99 thanks" my response was "no no, I only need one" and he says "yep, $9.99".
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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:41 pm

That's where your LBS makes it money mate. They got you out of a bind. Stop whinging.

If you can save money online, buy them and make sure you have some in sock. If you dont have any spare dont complain when you have to pay a bit extra for the convenience at the time. The online retailer has a much larger market share hence it can sell at lower cost and probably has a lot less to fork out in rent because of their location.
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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby Mububban » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:06 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:
That's the bit that irritates me about LBS pricing. The exact same tube is $4.49 online (local stock) and surely they're making money on it at $4.49, so how much markup is the LBS making on a $9.99 tube ?

I know it's only $5 but it's Really Irritating.
This exact scenario played out at my LBS recently, I got stuck and needed a tube then and there. He grabs a crappy Tioga off the shelf and says "that'll be $9.99 thanks" my response was "no no, I only need one" and he says "yep, $9.99".


Fair call, but the tube I pulled out after the weekend double G already had 3 patches on it and will soon have a 4th :D
And considering how much I buy online vs in store, I'm okay with buying a couple of tubes per year.

I basically buy anything that requires trying on first (gloves, helmets, glasses, shoes etc) in store and cop the price premium, and buy things like gels, tools, lights, drink powders etc online.
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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby uart » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:17 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:I use conti race for 25-32mm tubes and had no issue what so ever.

Yes, no problem with the race (WIDE) 25-32c tubes. It's the 20c-25c one that have been unreliable in 25c (but fine in anything narrower). Michelin 18c-25c are even worse (in 25c tyres). Vittoria 25-28c no problems.

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby fat and old » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:33 pm

I use standard Vittoria 18-23's in 25c Corsas. 95-105 psi, 90kg of bike, rider and bag. No issues ever. Not these tyres, 25mm schwalbe 1, Maxxis refuse, conti GP's...all in 25. Stem length is usually whatever I can get at the time, so long as they're 5 bucks or less :lol:

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby Thoglette » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:20 pm

uart wrote:It's the 20c-25c one that have been unreliable in 25c

Do you still have the boxes? What country were they made in?

There's a lot of anecdote around to suggest the the major manufacturers have quietly outsourced their tube productions to China without implementing appropriate QA/QC processes, with inevitable results.
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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby uart » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:56 pm

Thoglette wrote:
uart wrote:It's the 20c-25c one that have been unreliable in 25c

Do you still have the boxes? What country were they made in?

There's a lot of anecdote around to suggest the the major manufacturers have quietly outsourced their tube productions to China without implementing appropriate QA/QC processes, with inevitable results.


Yes I still have the boxes, however country of manufacture is also marked on the tubes themselves.

Continentals are made in China.
Michelins are made in Serbia.
Vittoria are made in Thailand.

Here is full data regarding their usage in standard 25c tyres (been running them in both Continental "Ultrasport 2" and Vittoria "Rubino Pro 3" tyres).

1. Continental "Race 28"
- Rated 700 x 20-25c.
- Made in China.
- Weight 103g.
- Measured diameter (just enough air to hold shape) 15-16 mm
- Bought qty 5 from Wiggel about 7 months ago.
- Several failed **(see note) over a period of months. The survivors now moved to 23c tyres and seem ok there.

2. Michelin "Airstop A1"
- Rated 700 x 18-25c. ( * see note)
- Made in Serbia
- Weight 99g.
- Measured diameter (just enough air to hold shape) 15-16 mm
- Bought qty 5 from Merlin a few weeks ago.
- Only tested the one so far. Failed after 2km on smooth bike path. Reluctant to even use the others.
- * Note. I see Wiggel stocks a very similar looking Airstop A1, but says 18-23c on the pack (mine absolutely definitely say 18/25c btw). I wonder if it's the same tube but just more appropriately labeled? http://www.wiggle.com.au/michelin-air-s ... nner-tube/

3. Vittoria "Ultralite inner tube road"
- Rated 700 x 25-28c.
- Made in Thailand.
- Weight 114g.
- Measured diameter (just enough air to hold shape) 18-19 mm
- Bought qty 5 from Wiggel about 7 months ago.
- Used in 25c, 28c and 27 x 1 1/8". Ridden many kms on these without a single failure.

4. Continental Race (WIDE)
- Rated 25-32c.
- Made in China.
- Weight 135g.
- Measured diameter (just enough air to hold shape) 21 mm
- Bought qty 2 from Wiggel about 7 months ago.
- No failures yet, but only one in use (on an old 1" x 1 1/4" gatorskin).

** Note: In all of the above, "failure" means that the tube developed a hole or split for which no reason of penetration or pinch or tyre failure or incorrect fitment could be found. It doesn't count "flats" from an identifiable cause.
-

Photos arranged heavy to light left to right (Conti 25-32c, Vittoria Road 25-28c, Conti 20-25c, Mich Airstop 18-25c).

1. Deflated.
Image

2. Just enough air to hold shape
Image

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby Philistine » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:04 am

This has been a very timely thread for me (thanks uart). I have always run 23c tyres on my road bikes. I have had a terrible run with punctures, mainly pinch flats, and I have bought - but not yet fitted - a pair of 25c tyres in an effort to ease the problem. I have got some no-name tubes labelled 19 - 23 and some others labelled 19 - 25, and I had intended to use the latter, but it sounds as though I could have exchanged my pinch flat problem for a spontaneous degradation problem. I shall order some Schwalbe 19 - 28 tubes.

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby Howzat » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:10 pm

Interesting stuff, uart - thanks.

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby Zippy7 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:15 pm

Interesting that you've had such experiences.
Of the brands I have tried, Conti, Schwalbe, Giant, Kenda, Vittoria have been fine.
Tioga are rubbish and seem labelled the wrong size (too small compared to label).
Some other generic chinese branded ones were strangely fine.
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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby jackthelad » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:11 pm

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Re: What brand/size tubes do you use in your 25c tyres?

Postby Thoglette » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:22 pm

jackthelad wrote:Tubeless

Out of interest, how long have you been using the road bike?
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