When to replace the outer cables?

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Nate
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When to replace the outer cables?

Postby Nate » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:00 pm

When they're worn of course!

But when is that? after 10,000 shifts?
in the wet?
is it dusty?
did you lube the cable to stop ingress of dirt?

I put my well used outers under the microscope & have a look!

FYI - the outcome?
after 2 sets of inners, the outers arent worn... so i'd recommend 2-3 inners per outer.

here's the proof: https://youtu.be/2cn77-foaTI

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Tim
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby Tim » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:54 pm

Thanks Nate.
Another interesting close-up look.
I usually replace inners and outers at the same time but not always, if I'm in a hurry.
Good to know at least 2 to 1 is okay.
It'd be good if you could do a Shimano (SP41) cable.

Patt0
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby Patt0 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:01 pm

I am on the fourth inner. 15-20k km, two years. 6800 groupo and it shifts perfect.
Image

eeksll
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby eeksll » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:11 pm

thanks for another interesting video.

Would be interested to see an actual worn outer for comparison sake. Probably the only way of knowing that is, when replacing with a new inner it still shifts funny.

A look at a worn inner gear cable would be good too, I think Ill save my cables next time and have a look when i get time. I use nokon cables too, so no need to dremel off the outer of the outer.

I'd also guess the rear derailleur loop is probably the tighter of the bends, but depends a bit on setup. The BB pass through could also be a point of friction

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Nate
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby Nate » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:12 pm

eeksll wrote: inner gear cable would be good too, I think Ill save my cables next time and have a look when i get time. I use nokon cables too, so no need to dremel off the outer of the outer.


My cables have never "worn" - they fray in the shifters.
I *think* what is happening is that the cable is work hardening inside the shifter & eventually breaks, as its being bent & then straightened over & over & over.
I could be completely wrong though... happy to have anyone else chime in on that one.

eeksll
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby eeksll » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:07 pm

Nate wrote:
eeksll wrote: inner gear cable would be good too, I think Ill save my cables next time and have a look when i get time. I use nokon cables too, so no need to dremel off the outer of the outer.


My cables have never "worn" - they fray in the shifters.
I *think* what is happening is that the cable is work hardening inside the shifter & eventually breaks, as its being bent & then straightened over & over & over.
I could be completely wrong though... happy to have anyone else chime in on that one.


well you and me both ... sort of, my 8-9-10 speed bikes, I only ever changed the cable because I felt I should. I can not categorically say the shifting was off. Once the 10 speed was off and that was due to fraying at the shifter.

my 11 speed campg road bike, i reckon did wear out and not from fraying, it shifted better after the cable change. Right now I am close to changing it again, but every time I think right thats enough of that, I am going to change it, I don't have any issues on the next ride :!:

headasunder
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby headasunder » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:08 pm

I usually replace the rear loop outer when changing the inner rd gear cable, it cops a lot of grit/spray.

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Duck!
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby Duck! » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:22 am

Nate wrote:
eeksll wrote: inner gear cable would be good too, I think Ill save my cables next time and have a look when i get time. I use nokon cables too, so no need to dremel off the outer of the outer.


My cables have never "worn" - they fray in the shifters.
I *think* what is happening is that the cable is work hardening inside the shifter & eventually breaks, as its being bent & then straightened over & over & over.
I could be completely wrong though... happy to have anyone else chime in on that one.

That's pretty well spot on. Cheap, non-stainless cables will get rusty and rough(er than when new; they're pretty crap from the start), so will wear out, but stainless, coated or not won't wear that much. It does fatigue at the stress point in the shifter, and that's where it will always break. Coated cables can "wear out", depending on how the coating is applied. Some are better than others. My personal favourites are the Shimano PTFE-coated cables introduced with 7900 Dura-Ace (and sometimes labelled as such), which have the coating applied to the individual strands before being wound into the cable, so it doesn't peel off. "Optislick" cables are coated in a similar manner and are very nearly as good. By contrast, the 9000 Dura-Ace polymer-coated cables have the coating applied after the cable is wound, and frankly it is crap; it peels of and bunches up inside the housing, causing poor shifting due to high friction. SRAM gear cables are similar.

Often testing the flexibility and springiness of the outers is a clue to their health. If they're supple, flexible and quite springy it's a good sign the inner plastic tube is intact and in good condition. If the outers are stiff with minimal springiness, it's a sign that the inner sleeve has worn through, as the reinforcing wires have become exposed to moisture and corroded from within.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

duncanm
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby duncanm » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:40 pm

The radius of your bends, cable tension, and outer lining material play a lot in life, too.

I find I need to replace my outers after 3 or so inners.. it becomes pretty obvious, as the cables cut a trough in the liner at the sharpest bend in the cable run and start to bind (so down-shifts in the rear, which rely on spring tension, become noticeably slower).

You say you had a look - did you cut the outer at the sharpest bend in your cable run?

duncanm
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby duncanm » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:42 pm

My 10sp campag shifter cables always break at the swage end, where they bend around the ergo mech.

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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:21 am

I retained the original stock out cables in a recent cable replacement because I the replacement outer cables were blue... thus would give me a single cable with blue outers and the rest black. That was convincing enough not to change outers.

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Nate
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby Nate » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:49 pm

O M G...
Service your deraileur pivots!

Still wasnt shifting 100% & i couldnt get into the largest cog... all the adjusting couldnt quite get it there.
Also there was some really bad oscillation when coasting, like i had an extra 20 links in the chain.

So i took apart the deraileur & had a look inside... Whoa - it was horrific.
So much brown, gunky stuff & moisture! So cleaned it all up & re-greased & its like a new deraileur!

My suggestion is to clean/service the pivots when you do the inners... another vid to be done!

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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:54 pm

I think I may be either a bit wasteful, or a bit retentive. I usually replace housing when I replace cables, just don't like the idea of nice new slick cable going into old manky housing.
If for some reason I'm not replacing, I trim off the last 2-3mm of housing on each end and re-open it up and fit a new ferrule, believing that the last 2-3mm is probably going to be the most likely to be filthy/gritty/degraded.
And on the rear derailleur, I do this on the housing loop whenever I clean the bike, but obviously you can only do this once or twice before needing new housing.
Mmm, SunTour

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Thoglette
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby Thoglette » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:45 pm

Oh, a little necrothreading. I was about to buy a complete set of inners & outers (Campag as that's what's on there now) but they've gone from $50 to nearly $100. And I really only need rear shifter outers. (New inners but the outers are stiff).

Any favourites? I did search (keyword: Duck) which is how I found this thread. (I know: 6700 Ultegra pulleys; 7900 inners but which outers?) Is Shimano Y80098019 ultegra quality or claris quality?
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Duck!
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby Duck! » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:58 pm

OT-SP41 is the good stuff, used for the majority of Shimano's shift systems.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Thoglette
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Re: When to replace the outer cables?

Postby Thoglette » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:40 pm

Duck! wrote:OT-SP41 is the good stuff, used for the majority of Shimano's shift systems.

Magic! Thanks. I've replaced inners, shifters, cassette and derailleur. Now the outers. But it's still the same old axe
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