Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

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MichaelB
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby MichaelB » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:52 am

(sigh)

Finally got to do a Spring refresh on the bike. BB bearings to replace, new bars and seatpost, new RD cable and install R8000 RD and what do O discover ....

The hangar is just a tad loose :roll: :oops:

That’s prob the whole and only reason for my shifting woes. Only a 1-2mm wobble if that.

Oh well, easy fixed at least !!

Jmuzz
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:44 pm

When in doubt use an alignment checker tool or replace the hanger.

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MichaelB
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby MichaelB » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:24 am

Jmuzz wrote:When in doubt use an alignment checker tool or replace the hanger.


It's something that should have been checked but didn't. Wont make that mistake again.

Interestingly, the replacement hanger is about GPB30 when the shipping is included !!!

vosadrian
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby vosadrian » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:49 am

Just posting here as it is related and discussed... Sorry for the hijacking!

I have a 6600 setup on my commuter. Over time I have replaced the RD with brand new 6700. This was when I thought I needed new Jockey wheels to improve some poor shifting, but I actually found it did not improve the poor shifting much. I have changed cables and outers a few times and it always improves, but I have never got it perfect like it was when I got the bike. And it quickly returns to before once things settle and everything gets dirty again.

The issue I have is that if I tune the cable tension for down shifts (bigger rear), up shifts get slow, and sometimes it will not upshift unless I lean on the shifter a little. If I tune for better up shifts, I often have to over shift the down shifts to get it to change and then come back on the up shift.

I had a theory that there was not enough tension on the cable to pull it all the way immediately on an up shift, so I tried increasing the B tension screw. Does this increase the cable tension to pull the cable with more force on up shifts (to smaller cog). I normally have the B tension quite loose in order to get the jockey wheel position relative to largest cog as per the manual... but this is pretty much loosening the screw to minimum tension.

When I first got this bike, it shifted perfectly with all 6600 stuff. I suspect my tuning is not great, as I have replaced most things without ever getting it 100% back to what it was. I can live with a slow shift that is not "crisp". But it can be annoying when have to keep overshifting to get into the gear you want.

With the hanger loose discussion above.... is it possible to have a loose hanger? Mine gets clamped with the skewer when the wheel is fitted and is very tight even if the mounting screw is loose.
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ValleyForge
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby ValleyForge » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:07 pm

Bent hanger more like. It changes the angle just slightly and would be the next thing on my list to check.
Ha ha ha! Cookies on dowels.

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Duck!
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby Duck! » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:47 pm

vosadrian wrote:
I had a theory that there was not enough tension on the cable to pull it all the way immediately on an up shift, so I tried increasing the B tension screw. Does this increase the cable tension to pull the cable with more force on up shifts (to smaller cog).

The B-tension screw has exactly zero effect on cable tension. Its entire purpose is to adjust clearance of the derailleur below the sprockets, especially the large one, by acting on the spring in the mount pivot.
The 6600 shifters are getting a bit long in the tooth; it is possible, or even probable that the factory-installed grease in the mechanism is drying out and gumming up, slowing the shift action (although typically it presents as nothing happening when you press the release shifter. A generous spray of light lube and working the levers back & forward softens the cheesy old grease and gets them working properly again.

The other thing to check is that you've got the anti-rotation washer on the cable achor bolt correctly oriented; the hook tab does not sit over the cable, rather it lies parallel to the cable, pointing upward. Hooking the tab over the cable changes the way the cable bends as the derailleur moves, which mucks with the leverage and throws the shift tuning out of whack.

It could also be that the High (outer) limit is too far out, which also throws the tuning out.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

vosadrian
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby vosadrian » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:08 am

Thanks Duck!

Could be showing my ignorance here... and possibly the cause of my problem. I have no idea what the anti rotation washer is and where it is. Did a search, but could not find much. Any help available with that?
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Bunged Knee
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby Bunged Knee » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:52 am

vosadrian wrote: I have no idea what the anti rotation washer is and where it is. Did a search, but could not find much. Any help available with that?


Similar like this washer.
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ID please? What ID? My seat tube ID is 27.2mm or 31.6mm depending on what bikes I ride today.thanks...

vosadrian
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby vosadrian » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:02 pm

Does this look like it is right? (Photos taken with bike upside down and bike in a bit of a mess currently due to rain)

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Bunged Knee
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby Bunged Knee » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:35 pm

Yes,it is. But the 1st pic is wrong of the barrel adjuster placement if still using it now. Other 2 pics is correct.
ID please? What ID? My seat tube ID is 27.2mm or 31.6mm depending on what bikes I ride today.thanks...

vosadrian
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby vosadrian » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:33 am

Bunged Knee wrote:Yes,it is. But the 1st pic is wrong of the barrel adjuster placement if still using it now. Other 2 pics is correct.


Not sure I understand. These pics were all taken in about 30 seconds with the bike upside down. Only change is I changed the gear from inner gear to outer. The barrel adjustment placement was not changed?
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Bunged Knee
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby Bunged Knee » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:47 pm

Is barrel adjuster still like that in that 1st pic now or not?

It should not be like that and it's in like the pic below.
Image
ID please? What ID? My seat tube ID is 27.2mm or 31.6mm depending on what bikes I ride today.thanks...

vosadrian
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby vosadrian » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:51 pm

It is the same in all the pics. Nothing was changed (pics taken at same time within <60 seconds). I think it is right. Maybe the photo angle makes it look wrong.
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Duck!
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Re: Shimano RD-5800 (GS version) tuning/adjustment

Postby Duck! » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:43 pm

Bunged Knee wrote:Yes,it is. But the 1st pic is wrong of the barrel adjuster placement if still using it now. Other 2 pics is correct.

No, it's fine; I suspect you're getting thrown by the orientation of the photo. The adjuster can only go in one way, because the hole is not threaded all the way through.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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