Tubular fitting and puncture repair

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ValleyForge
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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby ValleyForge » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:30 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Stovepipe wrote: or it just cant be done? seems wasteful and expensive to just throw it away for one little shard of glass..


Now "proper" hand made tubulars can be fixed but it involves a bit of mucking about and two specialist items: suitable needle & thread and latex solution.

I used to repair my tubulars after learning how in the bike shop I worked in as a teenager.
I tried to do the same to VeloFlex tubulars a few years ago but could not for the life of me get the backing tape off to get to the thread. So I began to lurk on the online stores and pounce when they were on special.
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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby uart » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:14 pm

I "fixed" all of my old tubulars (singles) about 30 years ago - I fixed them by changing the rims over to clinchers. :mrgreen:

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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby Thoglette » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:23 pm

ValleyForge wrote:I tried to do the same to VeloFlex tubulars a few years ago but could not for the life of me get the backing tape off to get to the thread. So I began to lurk on the online stores and pounce when they were on special.


Unfortunately non-latex base glue seems to getting more common. One will just have to keep lurking, I guess.
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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby macca33 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:06 pm

Singles as train8ng/everyday wheels aren't the most convenient, particularly if you're needing assistance to mount them, from someone else.....
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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby ValleyForge » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:39 pm

macca33 wrote:Singles as train8ng/everyday wheels aren't the most convenient,...

I disagree - I can rip one off and put a spare on & inflate it waaay faster than a clincher. But, yes, you do ride more carefully 'til you get home.

Even so I have never had a roll-off - touch wood.
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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby uart » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:42 pm

I know this has been discussed somewhere here before, but what do people consider the main advantages of tubulars/singles.

To my knowledge the main advantage is that they are less prone to pinch punctures, and so can be run at lower pressures. Is that about it?

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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby macca33 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:39 pm

ValleyForge wrote:
macca33 wrote:Singles as train8ng/everyday wheels aren't the most convenient,...

I disagree - I can rip one off and put a spare on & inflate it waaay faster than a clincher. But, yes, you do ride more carefully 'til you get home.

Even so I have never had a roll-off - touch wood.



If you know what you're doing, fine, but if the OP's mate cannot even glue them, why would he use them?
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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby Paul B » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:42 pm

macca33 wrote:

If you know what you're doing, fine, but if the OP's mate cannot even glue them, why would he use them?


So are you suggesting that in not knowing how something is done than one should not bother to learn? That’s a bit elitist in my view. I’m the OP’s mate and worked it out online and took some tips from the replies in this thread. Got the tubs on in no time and very pleased to be rolling around on them. Should a puncture occur.... no big deal, just a different process.
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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby Paul B » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:51 pm

uart wrote:I know this has been discussed somewhere here before, but what do people consider the main advantages of tubulars/singles.

To my knowledge the main advantage is that they are less prone to pinch punctures, and so can be run at lower pressures. Is that about it?

I had a bad stack recently which resulted in a fractured pelvis. Not in any way related to the tyre choice. However, earlier on the ride as I was negotiating a high speed descent, I was taking it relatively easy (prob max 70kmh) as the thought of puncturing and the resulting consequences were flashing through my mind. With tubulars, the risk of such a occurrence is significantly reduced. And, now that I am using them, I can say that I definitely notice how nice they feel to ride on. Though, to be fair, I am rolling on a new set of Enve wheels so that is probably a contributing factor.
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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby Duck! » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:58 pm

uart wrote:I know this has been discussed somewhere here before, but what do people consider the main advantages of tubulars/singles.

To my knowledge the main advantage is that they are less prone to pinch punctures, and so can be run at lower pressures. Is that about it?

That's moreso related to tubeless, not tubulars - very different.
Tubulars for starters are lighter by a decent bit. The rims don't have the extended & beefed up sidewalls that clinchers (including tubeless) need, and the tyres themselves are lighter as well because they don't have the beefed-up beads to hook into the rims. The sewn-together beadless construction makes the tyres more supple than equivalent clinchers, so will ride better for the same pressure. Being able to maintain a high pressure means there's less movement and friction between the tyre and tube, so less rolling resistance. Running at lower pressure will induce more squirm and increase rolling resistance in exactly the same manner as tubed clinchers.

Tubs are still not immune to pinch flats, although the rim cross-section does make it considerably less likely than clinchers.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby macca33 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:13 pm

Paul B wrote:
macca33 wrote:

If you know what you're doing, fine, but if the OP's mate cannot even glue them, why would he use them?


So are you suggesting that in not knowing how something is done than one should not bother to learn? That’s a bit elitist in my view. I’m the OP’s mate and worked it out online and took some tips from the replies in this thread. Got the tubs on in no time and very pleased to be rolling around on them. Should a puncture occur.... no big deal, just a different process.


Let us know how you go breaking the bead on your tub when you puncture out in the middle of nowhere. Nothing elitist in my comment, more practical.... There is a reason why tubs are not a good training tyre.
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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby Duck! » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:20 pm

macca33 wrote:
Paul B wrote:
macca33 wrote:

If you know what you're doing, fine, but if the OP's mate cannot even glue them, why would he use them?


So are you suggesting that in not knowing how something is done than one should not bother to learn? That’s a bit elitist in my view. I’m the OP’s mate and worked it out online and took some tips from the replies in this thread. Got the tubs on in no time and very pleased to be rolling around on them. Should a puncture occur.... no big deal, just a different process.


Let us know how you go breaking the bead on your tub when you puncture out in the middle of nowhere. Nothing elitist in my comment, more practical.... There is a reason why tubs are not a good training tyre.

That's the easy bit, just keep a tyre lever in your kit. Carrying a whole tyre rather than just a tube is the less convenient part.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby Derny Driver » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:36 pm

Duck! wrote:
uart wrote:I know this has been discussed somewhere here before, but what do people consider the main advantages of tubulars/singles.

To my knowledge the main advantage is that they are less prone to pinch punctures, and so can be run at lower pressures. Is that about it?

That's moreso related to tubeless, not tubulars - very different.
Tubulars for starters are lighter by a decent bit. The rims don't have the extended & beefed up sidewalls that clinchers (including tubeless) need, and the tyres themselves are lighter as well because they don't have the beefed-up beads to hook into the rims. The sewn-together beadless construction makes the tyres more supple than equivalent clinchers, so will ride better for the same pressure. Being able to maintain a high pressure means there's less movement and friction between the tyre and tube, so less rolling resistance. Running at lower pressure will induce more squirm and increase rolling resistance in exactly the same manner as tubed clinchers.

Tubs are still not immune to pinch flats, although the rim cross-section does make it considerably less likely than clinchers.

What duck said.
uart you need to remember that this whole idea of running tyres at as low a pressure as possible only started a few years ago. Tubulars / singles have been the absolute premium tyre of choice for decades precisely because, being sewn up, you can inflate the things to 160/180psi without them exploding. In the olden days when singles reigned supreme, more pressure meant better rolling resistance. Pumping the things up to 120/130psi meant that they wouldnt pinch flat and were faster.
But the real reason tubulars used to have the advantage on clinchers was the weight advantage, as Duck said. Tubular rims are lighter and tubular tyres are lighter. Well they used to be anyway. These days clincher tyres and clincher rims are only marginally heavier ...the tubular advantage is now so small most racers use clinchers because clincher convenience trumps the minor performance advantage od tubulars.
Tubulars give a better ride, are more supple ...if you get a flat in an emergency situation (like going down a hill) you can ride on it as the tyre remains glued to the rim.

As for the question of riding on tubulars as a training tyre / general riding around, well the answer is quite simple. Tubulars are generally double the cost of clincher tyres, and you get one small puncture and you have to throw the thing away. They are fine if you have deep pockets. Most people I know, my son included, train on clincher wheels and tyres, and race on carbon wheels with tubular tyres. This is a throwback to the old days when cycling as a sport used to be a working class pastime, and bike riders were blue collar workers who did not have thousands of dollars to throw at bikes, bike clothing, or wheels and tyres. These days of course cycling is the new golf, and general riding around on Zipp 404s with Vittoria Corsas tubbies is considered quite normal, as is matching your tyre colour / bar tape / seat colour / clothing colour / brand etc

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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby Paul B » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:47 pm

Duck! wrote:
macca33 wrote:
Paul B wrote:


Let us know how you go breaking the bead on your tub when you puncture out in the middle of nowhere. Nothing elitist in my comment, more practical.... There is a reason why tubs are not a good training tyre.

That's the easy bit, just keep a tyre lever in your kit. Carrying a whole tyre rather than just a tube is the less convenient part.

Yep agreed. I just left a small segment unbonded opposite the valve. Tyre lever and off it comes.
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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby ValleyForge » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:32 pm

Derny Driver wrote:... and bike riders were blue collar workers who did not have thousands of dollars to throw at bikes, bike clothing, or wheels and tyres. These days of course cycling is the new golf, and general riding around on Zipp 404s with Vittoria Corsas tubbies is considered quite normal, as is matching your tyre colour / bar tape / seat colour / clothing colour / brand etc

Harsh. I know plenty of people with deep pockets who will cough up for all sorts of bike nonsense but still balk at the cost of tubulars. Right cheapskates when it comes to tyres.
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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby ironhanglider » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:41 pm

ValleyForge wrote:
Derny Driver wrote:... and bike riders were blue collar workers who did not have thousands of dollars to throw at bikes, bike clothing, or wheels and tyres. These days of course cycling is the new golf, and general riding around on Zipp 404s with Vittoria Corsas tubbies is considered quite normal, as is matching your tyre colour / bar tape / seat colour / clothing colour / brand etc

Harsh. I know plenty of people with deep pockets who will cough up for all sorts of bike nonsense but still balk at the cost of tubulars. Right cheapskates when it comes to tyres.


It is even more absurd to be cheap with tyres considering the gains/$ from better tyres far outweigh the gains/$ of just about anything else.


Cheers,

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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby ValleyForge » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:05 pm

ironhanglider wrote:It is even more absurd to be cheap with tyres considering the gains/$ from better tyres far outweigh the gains/$ of just about anything else.


Cheers,

Cameron

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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby Derny Driver » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:48 pm

ValleyForge wrote:2800 for full leg IPL. Whinge when no one has a special on Conti GP tyres...

... extols the virtues of Maxxis Refuse and Gatorskins on internet forums :P

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Re: Tubular fitting and puncture repair

Postby Thoglette » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:52 am

I'm with Derny that you can't run clinchers at track pressures and that's still true for those who like to do left turns all day (on very smooth surfaces where high pressures are called for)

But Derny also almost said
Derny Driver wrote: The rims don't have the extended & beefed up sidewalls

..and that is..
Derny Driver wrote:the real reason tubulars used to have the advantage on clinchers


In short, tubulars have an architectural advantage that no clincher can ever match. For any nominal diameter (especially the skinny ones) there's a whole pile more tyre wall available to flex.

No clincher can ever do this.

They had one other advantage: tubulars were the only way to buy supple tyres. These days you can buy "open tubulars" from the big brands and save maybe $10USD vs the tubular version of the same tyre for about 95% of the effect.
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