Adjusting 105 - 5800 front derailleur

uad782
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Adjusting 105 - 5800 front derailleur

Postby uad782 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:14 pm

Hi again,

I am now really struggling with adjusting my 105 (5800) front derailleur. I have the instructions and have followed them. Everything is going fine in the small chainring and it shifts well to the large chainring.

The main problem is when in the big chainring the chain rubs on the outside of the front derailleur. I have tried adjusting the high limit screw but it runs out before the derailleur clears the chain. I have done it all the way in and then back out numerous times to check it works and is not stuck.

I have done the cable up as tight as possible and adjusted the adaptor as specified. I have no barrel adjuster.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

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Duck!
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Re: Adjusting 105 - 5800 front derailleur

Postby Duck! » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:43 pm

Put an in-line adjuster in the cable housing. You need it.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

uad782
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Re: Adjusting 105 - 5800 front derailleur

Postby uad782 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:25 pm

Thanks, as usual!

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Duck!
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Re: Adjusting 105 - 5800 front derailleur

Postby Duck! » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:14 pm

Is it the long-armed 5800 model, or the more compact "toggle"-type 5801? I'll knock up a detailed post as appropriate later.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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ValleyForge
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Re: Adjusting 105 - 5800 front derailleur

Postby ValleyForge » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:26 pm

Duck! wrote:Put an in-line adjuster in the cable housing. You need it.

In-line adjusters for your FD are a necessity in my books. Although a number of contributors will argue the toss. What do they think doing without will save? Weight? :roll:
Ha ha ha! Cookies on dowels.

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Re: Adjusting 105 - 5800 front derailleur

Postby Duck! » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:14 pm

OK, so here's the meaty bit. I'll cover both the long-arm 5800 and the late-model update toggle-type 5801, because many of the major points are shared between the two types. For simplicity I'll keep to the 5800-series numbers, but for others playing at home 5800 setup applies also to 9000, 6800, and with some minor differences, 4700 Tiagra, R3000 Sora and R2000 Claris, which are all the long-arm type, while notes for 5801 will also apply to R9100 Dura-Ace, R8000 Ultegra and imminently-arriving R7000 105 (which is in fact almost certain to be exactly the same derailleur as 5801). Unless specified, notes apply to both types.

First, set the height of the derailleur. If it hasn't yet been peeled off, use the attached alignment guide sticker, or if it's been removed, set the derailleur so the bottom edge of the outer cage plate is 1-2mm above the tips of the big ring teeth. With the height set, align the derailleur so it's slightly angled tail-in. Locate the brace bolt in the body of the derailleur, accessed through the cutout in the outer link, and with a 2mm allen key, screw it in until the deraileur is parallel to the chainrings. **If it's an aluminium frame, or a carbon frame with a side-mounted derailleur hanger which the screw rests against, the screw will be fine with direct contact. If it's a carbon frame, and the screw presses directly on the frame and not the hanger, use one of the supplied stick-on aluminium plates to take the load of the screw - it will push through carbon if not supported! Make an indent in the paint, back the screw off, remove the derailleur and stick a support plate over the mark. Refit and align the derailleur as above.

Wind the Low limit screw in until the outer cage plate is aligned with the outer face of the big ring teeth. Use a straight edge if you want to get picky. Ensure the shifter is in the full low gear position - it needs a second press of the lever after the main downshift to drop to the fully-released position.
5800: The guide pin below the cable anchor bolt is reversible to alter the pull angle to suit different frames' cable routing. Having the wrong pull angle can make the derailleur's action very jerky, although it won't stop it functioning. Use the supplied guide tool to work out the pull angle and necessary guide pin orientation; the pin can be pushed out with a 2mm allen key or similar fine object. Run the cable up the inboard side of the pin, then make a slight S-bend between the pin & clamp bolt so the cable exits upward on the outboard side of the bolt. Use pliers or similar to pull a bucket-load of tension, and clamp the cable.

5801: This derailleur features a rotating clamp, which provides built-in cable adjustment, in theory eliminating the need for an in'line cable adjuster (but it's still a good idea to have one). On the top of the derailleur you'll see the rotary clamp, and just near it a 2mm allen bolt, which actuates a pushrod to adjust the clamp. Unwind the adjuster bolt and ensure the rotary clamp is wound as far clockwise as it will go (it will need pushing back after undoing the clamp bolt). Similar to the 5800, pull a bucketload of tension on the cable, and clamp it off. Tuck the cable under the hook on the forward edge of the derailleur head, and use the supplied cable lock to clip into the centre of the clamp bolt.

Shift the rear to the large sprocket and adjust the FD's Low limit screw out so there's .5-1mm gap between the chain and inner cage plate. Move the shifter to its low trim point - the first click. It should move the derailleur a bit, so that when you're in the smaller rear sprockets and still on the small ring it cuts out chain drag on the derailleur. If the derailleur doesn't move, use your adjuster/s, either in-line or onboard for 5801, to add more tension. Shift to the big ring, and shift the rear to the smallest sprocket. adjust the FD's High limit so there's again .5-1mm clearance between the chain and the derailleur outer cage plate. If there's enough limit clearance but the derailleur isn't staying clear, add more cable tension with your adjuster/s.....

Similarly, from the full high position, the first short click on the release trigger should allow the derailleur to drop in slightly, but not downshift, to reduce chain rub when on the bigger sprockets and big ring. If the trim shift has minimal derailleur movement, drop a little bit of tension.

Both types are tricky derailleurs to set up properly, but once tuned do work very nicely.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

uad782
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Re: Adjusting 105 - 5800 front derailleur

Postby uad782 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:23 pm

Thanks Duck, that is awesome. I used the manual on the Shimano.si website which is exactly as you described. My problem is there is not enough adjustment in the high screw, so I have ordered a ca70 in-line barrel adjuster to add the extra tension. Btw mine is a 5800.

The only thing I missed is about the mid click on the shifter as it is not really described very well in the manual. I was wondering what that was for. So I gather is is only available when in the big ring. Once click partly moves the derailleur to give you more clearance when using the bigger sprockets with the big chainring. I suppose that is necessary with 11speed cassettes.

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Re: Adjusting 105 - 5800 front derailleur

Postby Duck! » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:43 pm

All Shimano road shifters with the exception of 7900 10-sp. Dura-Ace have trim shift in both directions - 7900 has no trim on the big ring. The 11-sp. family is different from the others in needing an extra release shift to drop to the full low position. So from the full big ring position, the first click (short push of the release shifter) will trim the derailleur for the bigger sprockets. A longer push will drop to the small ring, but to the low-trimmed position. Then push the shifter again to drop the FD all the way in. Older shifters had the same trim points, but bypass the intermediate low position when downshifting.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

uad782
Posts: 319
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:51 pm
Location: Somewhere near Malabugilmah

Re: Adjusting 105 - 5800 front derailleur

Postby uad782 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:26 am

Thanks Duck, a great explanation

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